Aderans

[Desmond84]

I tell you what though...if they start Phase 3 before 2014, you can be sure we can have this product available sometime in 2015!

Oh god, please make sure they do!

[hellouser]

The question is how long will they take to find 3000 participants!

Not long I bet, a little bit of simple marketing and some paperwork with all applicants wont take long. I'm sure they will round up 3,000 applicants REALLY easily.

I'm sure they could find plenty of individuals just off this forum.

[Desmond84]

When is phase III expected to start for aderans?

They have to finish Phase 2 in April 2013, submit an IND for Phase 3 to FDA and then enrol around 3000 subjects. All in all, FDA may take around 3 months.

The question is how long will they take to find 3000 participants!

[rdawg]

Guys I can't wait till I get my hands on Ji Gami! I hate taking Propecia...

How long do you think it will take them to get 2000-3000 ppl for Phase 3 trial?

When is phase III expected to start for aderans?

[Desmond84]

Guys I can't wait till I get my hands on Ji Gami! I hate taking Propecia...

How long do you think it will take them to get 2000-3000 ppl for Phase 3 trial?

[2020]

Histogen should at least bump you up 1-2 norwoods once it's available though.

it went from: not sure if it will even make it into the market... to: 1-2 NW gain + more density everywhere else... that's great, where are those pictures he promised?

[Kirby_]

Exactly! Anything even slightly better than shitty old finasteride and minoxidil will be a major step forward.

[Artista]

I agree, these companies have been working on their hair loss treatments, respectively, a long time now. Something WILL arise from these companies for us. At the very LEAST any treatments available will be a step ABOVE what we currently have available that works. I dont feel that it will be minimal.

[Desmond84]

With regards to genetic markers, one of the guys on our forum did some amazing investigative work and found out that they employed a geneticist to come up with specific genetic markers for their trial back in April 2011.

It's great news since it means they've been working on this genetic test for a while and Phase 3 should start sometimes in 2013

-- Fingers crossed of course

[Desmond84]

So you're essentially saying Aderans or Replicel may have a permanent and better solution than Fin?

It doesnt seem like aderans has growth, but rather permanent maintence.

ALTHOUGH couple that with a stimulant(minoxidil+HSC) and that could be a huge and powerful combination.

What is the next step for aderans, do they have approval for phase III? or another Phase II?

Yeah, I guess if you look into their presentations they are always comparing their product to Propecia, so most likely their aim is to do what Propecia does but as a once off treatment which would be great!

Histogen should at least bump you up 1-2 norwoods once it's available though.

And if you're still not happy, you can cover the rest with a transplant

[Pate]

They said they will test for the markers after they take the biopsy. So you still need to get a 1 sq cm flap of skin taken off the back of your head and you'll still have a scar.

Presumably they will give you your money back if it turns out you don't have the markers.

But that'll depend on who's selling it. If it's one of these dodgy hair restoration clinics who will be falling over themselves to license Aderans' tech, they'll probably tell you you're a responder just because you have like one out of ten markers. Then you'll grow three new hairs and they'll use that as an excuse not to refund you.

That's what they do already when they presribe you minox and saw palmetto.

rdawg,

The markers information suggests it won't have maintenance if you're not a responder. Washenik didn't go into great details but he seems to be saying in that vid that if you don't have the genetic markers, the cells that are replicated aren't capable of generating hair.

This is probably why it took them so damn long to get through Phase II. They kept having to re-run year-long trials to try and find out why only 60% or less were responding. That's what they came up with.

[Breaking Bald]

So what exactly would these genetic markers be? So that means they will find out beforehand whether you will respond to the treatment? So you don't have to waste your money.

[rdawg]

One other important information I found out is:

Dermal Papillae (DP) & Dermal sheath cup cells (DSC) are INTERCHANGEABLE.

Throughout the hair cycle, DP cells turn into DSC cells and vice versa. During growth DSC cells turn into DP cells to provide hair with more growth factors and during resting Phase some DP cells turn into DSC cells.

Now, here's the important bit:
DP cells are used by Aderans
DSC cells are used by Replicel.

So, they are practically the same treatment! We should be rooting for both of them. And regardless of which one comes out first we can jump on it straight away

So you're essentially saying Aderans or Replicel may have a permanent and better solution than Fin?

It doesnt seem like aderans has growth, but rather permanent maintence.

ALTHOUGH couple that with a stimulant(minoxidil+HSC) and that could be a huge and powerful combination.

What is the next step for aderans, do they have approval for phase III? or another Phase II?

[Artista]

Desmond, you diligent research has paid off for all of us. What you have brought to the forefront is a very logical theory based upon medical facts.Thank you brother Des'

[Pate]

As most of you heard on the presentation, Aderans has given up on reaching the "70% response rate" target and instead are looking for genetic markers that will indicate whether you're a responder or not.

What worries me is, genetic markers were NOT on their timeline schedule back in 2010. Does this mean they are lagging behind more than 1 year as initially thought?

I actually missed the significance of that when I watched the presentation first time around and went back to watch it again. Kind of disappointing.

So they've decided the response rate has less to do with the formulation of Ji Gami or the application of it, and more to do with a genetic pre-disposition of your cells to survive the replication process and still be inductive.

In that case it looks like the response rate of Aderans will not get higher than 60%.

40% failure rate is going to mean a lot of disappointed and out-of-pocket baldies. All we can do is hope we're in the lucky 60%.

On the plus side, I don't think the genetic markers will blow the timeline out any more. They have a lot of time on their hands after they inject people to wait for the 52 week mark - most of time spent in these trials is in the waiting for 12 months to pass. Sounds like they have been working on these marker assays concurrently.