Aderans

[Desmond84]

Hey guys,

I just found this posted by someone working in the pharmaceutical industry regarding Aderans keeping all the cards close to their chest:

"As someone who has worked in the drug development industry, I try to keep your readers updated with accurate info on how this process works. One of your readers asked whether “Aderans…would send out an update on their Phase 2 trial data……..and whether there are rules requiring such info to be confidential.”

There are no rules to keep trial data confidential. The sole reason why data from an ongoing Phase 2 trial is not released is because it is not available. That is, no data is available to a sponsoring company until a drug study is complete (or in rare cases, when an “interim analysis” is done). When a company begins a trial the data (and identity of the participating patients) is kept secret from the company during the conduct of the trial. This is to ensure that no data is manipulated; extraordinary safeguards are put in place. Intentional violation of such safeguards with hiding of the act is a form of scientific fraud and would result in failure of drug approval and public sanction of the company by regulatory (and other)
authorities.

The FDA (and regulatory agencies, in general) have no jurisdiction of when a company reports data to the public (and do not care). However, public reporting of inaccurate data can result in sanctions from both regulatory agencies and, if the company is public, the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). The latter relates to how public release of trial data typically affects a public stock (good data raises the stock price, bad data lowers it).

Nearly all public companies release Phase 2 clinical trial data (regardless of positive or negative) on trial completion for 2 reasons: (a) to communicate results to the scientific community, and (b) to communicate the results to shareholders. Withholding such data from shareholders can be perceived as having “inside information” of results that are considered “material” (i.e. important for shareholders to make decisions on purchase or sale of the stock). In cases where a company is private (rare when a company is at the stage of Phase 2), trial data is usually released to encourage future investors (positive data) or explain why a program is not moving forward (negative data).

Bottom line: Aderans can not send out a trial update because the data will not be known until study completion and analysis (the FDA has nothing to do with this). There are no rules to keep trial data confidential when a study is completed and, in fact, there are many reasons why public companies are required by the SEC to divulge these results. In fact, the SEC has brought legal action against some companies that they feel have not released “material” clinical trial data in a prompt fashion."

So it seems April-May is when they will release all of their final data and provide us with much more accurate estimates of product release!

Keep on fighting the good fight

[HARIRI]

-

- RU works, and no sides for me at high doses even

I'm really getting excited with this RU product. Neversaynever, Can you please tell me how are you using the RU? Lets say I ordered the 1% formula from mpbtreatments.com..."www.mpbtreatments.com/#/shop/4563157000/RU58841-Solution/1716974"

Q1) Will I apply 1ml in the evening once a day?

Q2) How will I use it along with my Rogaine Minoxidil 5%?

Q3) How many minutes should I wait between them?

Q4) Also how much percentage of RU are you using? 1% or 2% or 5%?

[Kiwi]

- I think histogen treatment combined with aderans would be a saviour for low to mid norwoods.

1) patents, regulations and other legal rubbish has crippled progress in MPB treatments for years. I'm suprised more work hasn't been done outside of europe and the states.

2) RU works, and no sides for me at high doses even

1) screw the USA patent and copyright law - its like the dark ages thanks to a small handful of OLD rich douche bags!

2) Wooo Hoooo!!! I'm so glad to hear that RU is working for you. How do you actually apply it to your head though??? Eye dropper?

Do you see regrowth or just hair loss halted?

[rdawg]

- I think histogen treatment combined with aderans would be a saviour for low to mid norwoods.

- patents, regulations and other legal rubbish has crippled progress in MPB treatments for years. I'm suprised more work hasn't been done outside of europe and the states.

- RU works, and no sides for me at high doses even

- PGD2 blockers also look promising. Keeping a close eye on MPBtreatments PGD2 blocker. They will only release it once they find a stable solution that dissolves the compound properly. They might be pricey, but I think it's all worth it. This could replace fin and RU and anything else, with little to no sides (i imagine no sides at sensible doses).

Hang onto your hair people, dont wait around.

Dont forget about BIM, their results will be out soon! they'll actually be on the market first I'd say.(2014-early 2015).

Alot of people want to be pessimistic because they've been dissapointed so far and think every single company will fail(not sure why) but science is always growing, just look how much technology has grown the past few years.

with such a huge market, you bet companies will work like crazy to get a product that works out there and after enough trial and error, they will find one very soon.

[neversaynever]

- I think histogen treatment combined with aderans would be a saviour for low to mid norwoods.

- patents, regulations and other legal rubbish has crippled progress in MPB treatments for years. I'm suprised more work hasn't been done outside of europe and the states.

- RU works, and no sides for me at high doses even

- PGD2 blockers also look promising. Keeping a close eye on MPBtreatments PGD2 blocker. They will only release it once they find a stable solution that dissolves the compound properly. They might be pricey, but I think it's all worth it. This could replace fin and RU and anything else, with little to no sides (i imagine no sides at sensible doses).

Hang onto your hair people, dont wait around.

[Desmond84]

Wow! It's so refreshing to see everyone's discussing Aderans and other upcoming treatments in such scientific manner rather than a cat fight over which one's gonna fail!

I have a lot of faith in Histogen & Aderans...I think if we keep things together for 3 more years we will be OK!

Happy new year everyone and plz keep this thread as scientific as u can..it's such a great read when people are positive and argue in a logical manner! I actually have been looking forward to logging in and reading everyone's comments

[Kiwi]

You're looking at this:

http://www.mpbtreatments.com/#/shop/4563157000/RU-4-Month-Combination-Set/3567437

[Pate]

I horrible side effects from fin.

I guess that means topical RU is my best bet? I know nothing about it :P

I guess you can only try it. Get a 1% bottle from mpbtreatments or something and just give it a go. If you get sides, stop using it. That's what I'm doing, but I'm using the 5% because I'm pretty much okay on fin.

But some guys who report sides from fin also report them from RU. I think most guys would say though that RU sides are less than fin sides. I am still waiting for my RU so I can't comment yet.

I knew nothing about RU until about six weeks ago either... but there is some good info out there about it, you just have to look for it. The biggest problem in the past has been that it's unstable and breaks down quickly, which meant a lot of guys thought it had stopped working.

Now you either freeze the powder to keep it stable or put it in the newly patented KB solution which appears to keep it stable for longer at room temperature. Mpbtreatments offers a pre-mixed RU in KB solution. It's pricey but still cheaper than Propecia. The other option is buying it from the Chinese sites. RU from those sites has been tested by guys on other forums and found to be pure, and it's a lot cheaper.

If you're interested go have a look at the RU threads in the Hair Loss Treatments forum.

If you don't want to use RU and can't use fin there aren't a lot of options for anti-androgens. Topical spiro cream, saw palmetto pills or topicals like Spectral DNC-L. None of which have been shown to be really effective, but it's hard to know. After all, how to you really tell if something's slowing down your hair loss? It could just be natural progression.

And before the mods gently remind us to get back on topic again... This is all so that we can maintain our hair for a few more years when ADERANS will ride to the rescue like a hirsuite knight in shining armour!

[Kiwi]

Well, theoretically, castration would be the best way to halt further hair loss. Rip your balls off. Then take an antiandrogen to suppress the last 5% or so of androgens still being produced by your adrenals.

But when we're talking a realistic route here, the best way to halt further loss would be the highest level of androgen suppression you can stand.

For most of us 6 years of oral spiro just ain't an option, nor are those topical androgen receptor antagonists that have significant systemic absorption. So what it would probably be would be a combination of finasteride and topical RU. Until CB comes along and then it would be fin plus CB. Some might prefer dut to fin.

In the future, Aderans and Replicel could actually halt further hair loss. I've been pretty dismissive of the 'immunisation' idea in the past but I'm reconsidering in light of the paper above on fibrosis. Replicel might fail to regrow much hair because it just can't reverse the scarring in the follicles - but if the follicles are still relatively healthy, and Replicel's DHT-resistant cells migrate in there and help it resist attack by DHT, then it's quite possible that follicle would avoid both androgen attack and fibrosis.

But that's all still years away. For now, fin plus RU. I know a lot of guys get sides even from those drugs, but it's probably the best compromise between sides and effectiveness we have available right now.

I horrible side effects from fin.

I guess that means topical RU is my best bet? I know nothing about it :P

[Pate]

LOL thats what I was just thinking. I'm not going to take Spiro for 6 years on the off chance that it might work.

What is the best way to halt further hair loss?

Well, theoretically, castration would be the best way to halt further hair loss. Rip your balls off. Then take an antiandrogen to suppress the last 5% or so of androgens still being produced by your adrenals.

But when we're talking a realistic route here, the best way to halt further loss would be the highest level of androgen suppression you can stand.

For most of us 6 years of oral spiro just ain't an option, nor are those topical androgen receptor antagonists that have significant systemic absorption. So what it would probably be would be a combination of finasteride and topical RU. Until CB comes along and then it would be fin plus CB. Some might prefer dut to fin.

In the future, Aderans and Replicel could actually halt further hair loss. I've been pretty dismissive of the 'immunisation' idea in the past but I'm reconsidering in light of the paper above on fibrosis. Replicel might fail to regrow much hair because it just can't reverse the scarring in the follicles - but if the follicles are still relatively healthy, and Replicel's DHT-resistant cells migrate in there and help it resist attack by DHT, then it's quite possible that follicle would avoid both androgen attack and fibrosis.

But that's all still years away. For now, fin plus RU. I know a lot of guys get sides even from those drugs, but it's probably the best compromise between sides and effectiveness we have available right now.

[Kiwi]

This and Des's posts are fascinating. They're not actually contradictory - Des's abstract shows that fibrosis is the reason why human MPB doesn't reverse like macaque MPB does, and shows why treatments won't regrow lost hair except sometimes in the very early stages.

Ovoxo's post suggests that in at least some cases, that fibrosis may not be permanent. It just takes many years of near-total androgen suppression to do it.

Since even castrated men don't generally regrow all their hair it presumably only takes minor levels of androgens to stop the regrowth.

The message to take away at this stage is, once again, do whatever you can to hang on to your hair. Even if the fibrosis can be reversed, you don't want to be waiting for six years of spiro to help you out.

LOL thats what I was just thinking. I'm not going to take Spiro for 6 years on the off chance that it might work.

What is the best way to halt further hair loss?

[jgold]

**** mpb honestly. god damn

[Pate]

It is often assumed that hair that is lost in pattern balding somehow “dies” after a certain period of time, and is therefore gone for good, rendered incapable of re-generation. This assumption is also erroneously reinforced by certain doctors, and other hair specialists. The following case study published in a reputable peer reviewed journal, along with numerous anecdotal accounts we have received over the last 10 years convincingly refute this assumption. This particular study gives an account of a 73 year old man who had been completely bald since 28 re-growing a full head of hair at age 73 ( 45 years of slick baldness) after 6 years on oral Spironolactone, effectively shattering the assumption of “dead” hair follicles.


Acta Derm Venereol. 1990;70(4):342-3.

Reversal of andro-genetic alopecia in a male. A spironolactone effect?

Bou-Abboud CF, Nemec F, Toffel F.

Source

Department of Internal Medicine, University Medical Center of Southern Nevada, University of Nevada School of Medicine.


Abstract

This 73-year-old white male has been bald since the age of 28. He developed nonA-nonB-induced liver cirrhosis and had been treated with spironolactone for the last 6 years. For the last 3 months, his hair had started to regrow over the scalp. This might be related to the antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone.



My opinion is nobody really knows, these treatments might work, might not work. Time will tell and we can discuss all we want, but it won't change the outcome.

This and Des's posts are fascinating. They're not actually contradictory - Des's abstract shows that fibrosis is the reason why human MPB doesn't reverse like macaque MPB does, and shows why treatments won't regrow lost hair except sometimes in the very early stages.

Ovoxo's post suggests that in at least some cases, that fibrosis may not be permanent. It just takes many years of near-total androgen suppression to do it.

Since even castrated men don't generally regrow all their hair it presumably only takes minor levels of androgens to stop the regrowth.

The message to take away at this stage is, once again, do whatever you can to hang on to your hair. Even if the fibrosis can be reversed, you don't want to be waiting for six years of spiro to help you out.

[youngsufferer]

It is often assumed that hair that is lost in pattern balding somehow “dies” after a certain period of time, and is therefore gone for good, rendered incapable of re-generation. This assumption is also erroneously reinforced by certain doctors, and other hair specialists. The following case study published in a reputable peer reviewed journal, along with numerous anecdotal accounts we have received over the last 10 years convincingly refute this assumption. This particular study gives an account of a 73 year old man who had been completely bald since 28 re-growing a full head of hair at age 73 ( 45 years of slick baldness) after 6 years on oral Spironolactone, effectively shattering the assumption of “dead” hair follicles.


Acta Derm Venereol. 1990;70(4):342-3.

Reversal of andro-genetic alopecia in a male. A spironolactone effect?

Bou-Abboud CF, Nemec F, Toffel F.

Source

Department of Internal Medicine, University Medical Center of Southern Nevada, University of Nevada School of Medicine.


Abstract

This 73-year-old white male has been bald since the age of 28. He developed nonA-nonB-induced liver cirrhosis and had been treated with spironolactone for the last 6 years. For the last 3 months, his hair had started to regrow over the scalp. This might be related to the antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone.



My opinion is nobody really knows, these treatments might work, might not work. Time will tell and we can discuss all we want, but it won't change the outcome.

I stand corrected.

[rdawg]

Edit: double post