Aderans

[Jairus]

Neversaynever that's a great point and made me look into so much information to find an answer! LOL

What I found is intriguing but NOT so bad! You are right about unused DP cells! What happens to them is anyone's guess and most probably will be dependent on the medium they end up in!

That study I posted in the previous post clearly highlights that the stem cells transformed into bones because of co-administeration of Calcium Hydroxyapatite!

But then again, any major problems with Ji Gami should get picked up in Phase 3 trials or a few years after its completion!

One thing is for sure though! Aderans is a permanent therapy, once they inject you with it, there's no way to undo it. So, it is more than likely that after using Aderans, you will have to be very careful with future therapies you decide to undergo. FOr example. Histogen may have an unpredictable effect on these transplanted DP cells and might turn them into something else!

Again guys, we are NOT trying to make anyone lose hope or put down upcoming therapies! We're simply discussing the potential risks of these therapies. This way we can demand more information from these companies to ensure their products are truly safe!


Cheers...

Des

When you say Aderans is permanent do u mean a one time injection or will we need to get it topped up every few years?

Thanks

[Desmond84]

"The cells of the DP are not only essential for hair follicle development and function, but are also a reservoir of cells with the potential to differentiate into a range of cell types that are of potential therapeutic importance"

http://jcs.biologists.org/content/124/8/1179.full

Maybe those cells unused by the follicles are destroyed by the immune system, but I guess theres a chance that they become different cell types.

Neversaynever that's a great point and made me look into so much information to find an answer! LOL

What I found is intriguing but NOT so bad! You are right about unused DP cells! What happens to them is anyone's guess and most probably will be dependent on the medium they end up in!

That study I posted in the previous post clearly highlights that the stem cells transformed into bones because of co-administeration of Calcium Hydroxyapatite!

But then again, any major problems with Ji Gami should get picked up in Phase 3 trials or a few years after its completion!

One thing is for sure though! Aderans is a permanent therapy, once they inject you with it, there's no way to undo it. So, it is more than likely that after using Aderans, you will have to be very careful with future therapies you decide to undergo. FOr example. Histogen may have an unpredictable effect on these transplanted DP cells and might turn them into something else!

Again guys, we are NOT trying to make anyone lose hope or put down upcoming therapies! We're simply discussing the potential risks of these therapies. This way we can demand more information from these companies to ensure their products are truly safe!


Cheers...

[hellouser]

How do you guys feel about Aderans affecting diffuse thinners?

I'm hoping it will do wonders and have a feeling it will work best for guys like me with diffuse thinning. I've thinned out about 4+ years ago but have basically stayed the same thickness since (possibly thinned out a little more but not much, not noticeably anyway). I'm currently on Minox and RU and hoping it will regrow some until Aderans is out... shouldnt be too long but the wait is killing me. I have a feeling I should be ok until Aderans is available considering I've had more or less the same hairline for the past 7+ years and more or less the same thickness for 4+ years. Aderans made claims they'd be available by 2014 Q1... I think with RU I should maintain what I got until then or even longer should Aderans take an extra year for an actual product.

*fingers crossed*

[Desmond84]

Hey guys,

Here's a recent news regarding "Stem cell transplantation" that could be very relevant to hair loss sufferers awaiting treatments such as Aderans / Stem cell studies:

"The report in the December 2012 edition of Scientific American illustrates clearly that just because a stem cell therapy utilizes a patient's own cells, it does NOT mean the treatment is without serious risk.

Most stem cell treatments are experimental, and they should be fully evaluated for safety and efficacy before human use.

In this case, the patient's transplanted cells turned into bone in the tissue surrounding the eye, causing pain and loss of mobility, and necessitating surgery to remove the graft."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=stem-cell-cosmetics

Just a thought but let's say if Aderans was proven safe, would injecting Histogen into these treated areas after an Aderans session have an unknown effect on newly injected DP cells!

It seems there's a lot we still don't know!

[534623]

Their goal is to produce unlimited amount of donor hair..
Stopping hair loss is not enough.

That's the point and question where my previous post ended up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_JHbtXJ0a8

Is Dr. Washink saying in the video what you say?
So what exactly is he saying concerning "producing unlimited amount of donor hair"?
Is this still their goal?

[BoSox]

Does this only potentially stop hairloss.......not regrow it?

Their goal is to produce unlimited amount of donor hair.. Stopping hair loss is not enough.

[sausage]

Does this only potentially stop hairloss.......not regrow it?

[534623]

If the leakage thing is true we probably wouldn't be getting results close to Propecia (15-20% regrowth + maintenance).

P.S. That study is in 2003 way before Aderans got to tweak their formula!

Even so ...
**************************

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=99898

"....ideas are summarized in Figure 1. This is a highly simplified model diagram because the exchange of cells between the papilla and sheath occurs at specific and different times of the hair cycle, as may the loss of cells from the follicle dermal sheath into the dermis. However, what it attempts to illustrate is the idea that movement of dermal cells may occur not only within the follicle but to the skin dermis as well, and that this may occur both in trauma situations and during the dynamic migratory phases of the hair cycle."
**************************

What does it mean?
First of all, this is still a scientific fact; namely, that hair follicles per se are NOT prone to "soak-up" any additional or injected cells in every hair cycle stage/phase (anagen-catagen-telogen-anagen again etc etc).
Second, each and every HUMAN hair follicle on your head cycles independent from other hair follicles - even within a so-called follicular unit (FU). In simple words, they do not cycle synchronously (as in rabbits or mice etc), especially in skin undergoing AGA.

So, what does it mean?
If you inject additional cells (even with a "tweaked formula"), not all hair follicles in the skin will "soak them up", simply because not every hair follicle is prone to soak them up. So this will cause "patchy hair growth" within your balding areas. You simply do not know when it's the proper moment for a distinct (already somewhat miniaturized) hair follicle in the skin. So this would, in fact, require multiple procedure during an unkown timeframe (for 2-3 years or more or so, until every follicle has finally been "caught" in its proper moment).

Actually, Dr. Washenik himself addressed exactly this problem in his presentation recently ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_JHbtXJ0a8

So WHAT EXACTLY is he saying concerning this issue?
Tell me ...

[534623]

Don't forget that histogen is also on the horizon and will boost the regrowth numbers even further!

I have no doubts ...

[Desmond84]

If the leakage thing is true we probably wouldn't be getting results close to Propecia (15-20% regrowth + maintenance).

P.S. That study is in 2003 way before Aderans got to tweak their formula!

[Desmond84]

You’re a little bit overoptimistic.

http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

In this presentation (June 2010), Dr. Washenik is talking about “Ji Gami CN” – the final product.
CN is THE product, which works best of all (9 all in all) the other protocols (N, C, etc). In his old timeline table (2010), Dr. WASHENIK (not me or someone else, of course!) calculated the duration for every phase 2 or phase 3 trail with around 15-18 month – again, according to Washenik’s BLACK ARROWS in his old timeline table.

But the phase 2 clinical trail for Ji Gami CN …

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01669746?term=ji+gami&rank=2

... started, in fact, in June, 2012 - and NOT in spring, 2011 (according to Washenik’s old timeline) – right?

According to this …


… THIS would be, in fact (best-case-scenario), the new timeline table.

And there is a question:
How long does it take 1) to get around 1000 trail subjects or so (?) for phase 3 trails – including 2) collecting and evaluating of all the outcome-data after around 18 month or so? And finally 3) how long does it take to get FDA approval thereafter?

And there is still THE big problem concerning "effectiveness" …

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602054a.html

If the ARI guys are still using the existing hair follicle structure, and that’s what they say, the mentioned “leakage-problem” in AGA affected skin is definitely NOT solved with this kind of approach.

Dude I had exactly the same thoughts on the release date! Late 2015 sounds reasonable and realistic!

With regards to efficacy, they showed that with a single therapy session they achieved what Propecia could do in 60% of patients! Now I might be optimistic but that's one hell of an achievement!

Don't forget that histogen is also on the horizon and will boost the regrowth numbers even further!

Sorry about the post b4. I just saw that thread about IARHS conference and was raging when I saw the 8-10 years thing!

To a HAIRY FUTURE

[534623]

Guys if Aderans can halt hair loss with a single treatment we are in a much better place than today!

Keep checking this thread for new info!

You’re a little bit overoptimistic.

http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

In this presentation (June 2010), Dr. Washenik is talking about “Ji Gami CN” – the final product.
CN is THE product, which works best of all (9 all in all) the other protocols (N, C, etc). In his old timeline table (2010), Dr. WASHENIK (not me or someone else, of course!) calculated the duration for every phase 2 or phase 3 trail with around 15-18 month – again, according to Washenik’s BLACK ARROWS in his old timeline table.

But the phase 2 clinical trail for Ji Gami CN …

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01669746?term=ji+gami&rank=2

... started, in fact, in June, 2012 - and NOT in spring, 2011 (according to Washenik’s old timeline) – right?

According to this …


… THIS would be, in fact (best-case-scenario), the new timeline table.

And there is a question:
How long does it take 1) to get around 1000 trail subjects or so (?) for phase 3 trails – including 2) collecting and evaluating of all the outcome-data after around 18 month or so? And finally 3) how long does it take to get FDA approval thereafter?

And there is still THE big problem concerning "effectiveness" …

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602054a.html

If the ARI guys are still using the existing hair follicle structure, and that’s what they say, the mentioned “leakage-problem” in AGA affected skin is definitely NOT solved with this kind of approach.

[Desmond84]

Guys if Aderans can halt hair loss with a single treatment we are in a much better place than today!

Keep checking this thread for new info! Don't give up my brothers and sisters!

We are most probably really close

[534623]

Who made the black arrow, you or him?

I am confused.

Spencer Kobren made the original black arrows in the original timeline pic - as explained in my previous post.

[yeahyeahyeah]

The pic I posted, is based on Dr. Washenik's original timeline pic he presented in June 2010 in Tokyo - I have just prolonged accordingly his timeline pic.

Anyway, in Washenik's timeline pic, he calculated for every phase 2 and phase 3 trail (see the BLACK arrows Washenik made in the pic!) around 15-18 month.

here is Washenik's original timeline pic:

http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

He is actually very similar to Nigam:
Washenik changes every 2 years his protocol, Nigam every 2 days.

Who made the black arrow, you or him?

I am confused.