The Ironman Procedure

[didi]

Gc

can you shoot them an email about failed extractions, do they come out or stay in scalp, after 2 years of debating we still dont know basic things abt hst

these failed extractions were so new to me, when i first heard abt it i was like wtf

[Arashi]

Sure, the technicians are just doing lottery:
They simply drill the needle anywhere in your scalp, without looking.
If they indeed catch a graft - that's good!
If they didn't - that's bad.

Sometimes I try to understand what you're thinking and how you draw your conclusions, but then I quickly just remain in the fact that you just can't understand a schizophrenic psycho ...

[534623]

A drill in your head where no follicle was extracted that could be used to implant in your head again.

Sure, the technicians are just doing lottery:
They simply drill the needle anywhere in your scalp, without looking.
If they indeed catch a graft - that's good!
If they didn't - that's bad.

[c5000]

Maybe they don't know the exact amount of failed extractions ? It can only be known if you count ALL the extraction sites. I don't think they keep track of this.

Remember they have two clickers... one seems to count the total number of extractions and the other clicker that they actually display counts the number of successfully tweezed usable grafts.

This was what annoyed me most was that I actually asked to see the other clicker that counts the TOTAL extractions and that's when he said "oh only about 80 were unsuccessful"... why didn't they just let me see if that was the case?

[c5000]

I'll also ask them this question, should be very easy to answer and no I don't think your starting an argument, nothing to worry about there with me!

What I noticed, maybe others can confirm... When my extractions were made, they would extract about 10 or 20 and then stop for a period of time using tweezers. It almost felt like they were balancing these grafts on my head as they were pulling them out very fast and then the third part was moving these grafts from my balanced head to the tray. That might be a load of bollocks, but thats what it felt like.

I'm glad mate, as I don't want to get involved in any personal arguments, I just want a better understanding of what goe on. I've never known such secrecy for a procedure where we pay such a lot of money.

But yeah, you're spot on about them balancing the grafts on your head.

Gaz, if you have a procedure in 3 weeks, try to be open minded about the possibility of these failed extractions, try to count like I did.

You may get a lot les failed extractions than me as your hair is STRAIGHT though, I really think it's mainly to do with how straight your haior is and how close together the hairs are within the follicle.

In my case, curly hair = dificult and in neversaynevers case having wide follicles = difficult

[Arashi]

OK somebody answer these 3 questions for me:

1) What is a failed extraction?

A drill in your head where no follicle was extracted that could be used to implant in your head again.

2) If the failed extraction is not extracted, how do they know its failed, does a small amount of hair lift off, e.g the tip?

Maybe they don't know the exact amount of failed extractions ? It can only be known if you count ALL the extraction sites. I don't think they keep track of this.

3)If this is the case, why can't they just extract the same graft again and this time ACTUALLY extract it?

From what I understood, it has to do with the angle of the hair. Some angles are just not good for extraction. They try but they are a lot harder and hence they can fail. BUT also, the technician told me that it was just a VERY difficult process, since the needle is so damn small, so that you easily mispoint the needle, hence years of experience was needed to become good at this. This is why a technician is a LOT better at it than an assistant or office manager who's task is not primarily to do extractions.

[534623]

No, I think you're correct. On one of the videos on youtube of a Gho procedure thats exactly what they do. Pull out grafts and put them on your head before moving them to the petri dish. I can try to find the vid later, Im in a rush.

You can see this in Sissorboy's video too, when Rolf extracts Scissorboy's grafts ...

http://www.scissorboy.com/video/index/122

There is another reason, why they are doing this, especially at the beginning of the extraction process - because they have to know the LENGTH of the patients' follicles, to set the correct deepness of the needle.

[534623]

THey defintely don't extract the failed extractions... tehy DEFINTELY stay in the scalp... I counted drills to clicks and tweezes.

Sure, because you could see what they do with the tweezers, when you're forced to look at the floor or between the girls legs.

Every "fail extraction attempt" would definitely create A WOUND, though. If this would be true, would you claim, I would have seen with my video-microscope lots of wounds, which still have grafts in them. But that's not the case. They EXTRACT/pluck them out - because without plucking them out, the technician can't know whether or not it's indeed a "failed extraction". If the technician would know in advance, that this graft will be a fail extraction - he wouldn't try to extract the graft at all. Without seeing it, he can't know it. So he has to pluck them ALL out. My technician told my this.

[gc83uk]

No, I think you're correct. On one of the videos on youtube of a Gho procedure thats exactly what they do. Pull out grafts and put them on your head before moving them to the petri dish. I can try to find the vid later, Im in a rush.

Thanks, wasn't sure if I was making that up.

[Arashi]

And that's he reason why you're so extremely helpful, because you showed us - hmmm, what exactly? NOTHING!

Because NOBODY ever had spoken before about failed extractions ... I was the first to bring this even up. If I had known beforehand, you can BET I would have made tons of photo's of all the extraction sites and count them.

Like, we've now been discussing this for what, 20 pages ? And all it would take are your photo's and a brief analysis and we would KNOW.

[gc83uk]

OK somebody answer these 3 questions for me:

1) What is a failed extraction?

2) If the failed extraction is not extracted, how do they know its failed, does a small amount of hair lift off, e.g the tip?

3)If this is the case, why can't they just extract the same graft again and this time ACTUALLY extract it?

[LMS]

I'll also ask them this question, should be very easy to answer and no I don't think your starting an argument, nothing to worry about there with me!

What I noticed, maybe others can confirm... When my extractions were made, they would extract about 10 or 20 and then stop for a period of time using tweezers. It almost felt like they were balancing these grafts on my head as they were pulling them out very fast and then the third part was moving these grafts from my balanced head to the tray. That might be a load of bollocks, but thats what it felt like.

No, I think you're correct. On one of the videos on youtube of a Gho procedure thats exactly what they do. Pull out grafts and put them on your head before moving them to the petri dish. I can try to find the vid later, Im in a rush.

[gc83uk]

THey defintely don't extract the failed extractions... tehy DEFINTELY stay in the scalp... I counted drills to clicks and tweezes.

Perhaps some of the failed extractions are "borderline" so they extract them "just in case"

I'll also ask them this question, should be very easy to answer and no I don't think your starting an argument, nothing to worry about there with me!

What I noticed, maybe others can confirm... When my extractions were made, they would extract about 10 or 20 and then stop for a period of time using tweezers. It almost felt like they were balancing these grafts on my head as they were pulling them out very fast and then the third part was moving these grafts from my balanced head to the tray. That might be a load of bollocks, but thats what it felt like.

[didi]

'In the left dish, there are 2x 500 HST grafts + the section with the star in it with the "unsuccessful grafts".'

That explains why there is no grafts in 'star' section of petri dish, failed ones are never taken out of scalp

[534623]

It's all great and all, these papers, but I don't care about them, I just care what people experience during their surgery.

And that's he reason why you're so extremely helpful, because you showed us - hmmm, what exactly? NOTHING!