The Ironman Procedure

[Arashi]

back to basics,this is getting frustrating..as i said b4 the best way is to get someone to do 50 grafts test for 700 bucks...get 3 and 2s only...then simply monitor donor and receipient..its really simple...tht will prove everything,even spliting theory

Yeah that's the other thing, some people think Gho focuses on single graft, because they're reporting thin recipient area. That's another area where Schweinhund's photo's would come in helpful (instead of making his stupid video).

[didi]

back to basics,this is getting frustrating..as i said b4 the best way is to get someone to do 50 grafts test for 700 bucks...get 3 and 2s only...then simply monitor donor and receipient..its really simple...tht will prove everything,even spliting theory


im not happy tht they are not happy answering important questions,
why so many failed exts?

[Arashi]

You know what, GC83UK, maybe send 2 emails, to both doctors, independantely and see what they both answer, that would be really interesting

[c5000]

Yep. But seriously, when the assistant technician took over, she drilled about 20-25 times each time in a row and I would only hear 3 succesful clicks. So, ratio's can be a LOT worse than 3:1.

My extraction rate when a less experienced member of staff was working on me was also horrendous...

she worked on me for what felt like over half an hour, kept changing the depth of the drill etc and must have made 250 holes or more, at this point I asked her how many had actually been successful and she said "only 25"... at this point she must have guaged my concern as she got someone else to come in and my ratio improved to about 2 holes to get 1 successful graft

[Arashi]

I'd ask her (or that other woman), this:

People on the forums are reporting that they're hearing (way) more drills than clicks for succesful extractions, somebody even reported he heard 4 drills for every succesful extraction. Does this mean that in his case, out of the 4000 extracted hairs only 1000 were succesful ?

Then, the regrowth number, being 80-85%, does this include these failed extractions ? If so, at 85% regrowth and 4000 drills, 3400 hairs would grow back, 3000 being the failed extractions (since these ALWAYS grow back, right ?), so only 400 succesful extracted follicles, hence a REAL regrowth ratio of only 40%. Is this correct ?

[gc83uk]

Look I get it, your just worried and if anything you want to put this theory to rest so you can enjoy the rest of your recovery. Nothing wrong in playing devils advocate now and again.

[534623]

How many failed ext did IM have?

9,467 exactly. You can see them in my petri-dish photo.

[gc83uk]

Hehe, in that case I would have been sitting there for 2 days (which I was afraid of when that assistant took over by the way). No, luckily the assistant called in the technician to take over again after 20-30 minutes. So let's assume my ratio was close to 2:1. In that case I would have 4800 extraction sites in my head (to get my 1600 grafts).

Did you take a peek at the petri dish? If so what do you remember seeing?

I must confess I didn't take much notice of the dish when I had mine, nor did I know at the time that the 3rd sector of the tray was for failed grafts.

I know this sounds like I'm making it up, but I would bet a large sum of money that the failed extraction section was empty on my last 2 procedures. I remember thinking to myself, these 3 compartments much be for 1 hair graft / 2 hair grafts and 3 hair grafts... I felt disappointed that I had no 3 hair grafts! This is a very vague memory though.

I'll definitely pay more attention on my next visit, I'm there in 3 weeks again.

So what would you like me to email to Kristel exactly? Type the email here as you want it and I'll send it.

[Arashi]

But what C5000 noted, I found too: when I asked them about failed extractions during the surgery, they really seemed not happy with those questions and answered them only VERY briefly.

So we just don't know a lot of stuff right now and that's why a case study would be great, so we can draw our own conclusions.

[Arashi]

So, again, that's where Schweinhund's case would have been really interesting. But all he's interested in is making a video of his hairs growing I think ...

[Arashi]

But that IS of course if all assumptions are correct. That is the whole reason why I wanted to look at Schweinhund's head, count the extraction sites and see if all assumptions are correct. Something for example that I can think of, what could dramatically improve the ratio, is if they drilled failed extractions twice (to re-try them).

I NEVER claimed all this is correct. ALL I'm saying is that I KNOW that during my surgery, i heard them drill way more often than that I heard them click for success (being close to that 2:1 ratio)

[Arashi]

If this was the case, lets say you had 1400 grafts planned to be extracted and half of these grafts were troublesome 20:3, assuming the other 700 are approx 2:1 then you have approximately 6000 extractions at a rough guess in your head right now.

Hehe, in that case I would have been sitting there for 2 days (which I was afraid of when that assistant took over by the way). No, luckily the assistant called in the technician to take over again after 20-30 minutes. So let's assume my ratio was close to 2:1. In that case I would have 4800 extraction sites in my head (to get my 1600 grafts).

[gc83uk]

Yes.


Sometimes she'd drill 20 times in a row, sometimes 23, sometimes 25, sometimes she'd click 2 times, sometimes 3 times, sometimes 5 times, so it's not a hard number but an educated guess.

If this was the case, lets say you had 1400 grafts planned to be extracted and half of these grafts were troublesome 20:3, assuming the other 700 are approx 2:1 then you have approximately 6000 extractions at a rough guess in your head right now.

[Arashi]

I hope you don't think I'm being pedantic, but when we're throwing these ratios around then it gets confusing. I just want to understand it 100% before I start emailing hasci back etc

Of course. I think this post would sum it up:

Let's say your ratio is 3:1 and they extracted 4000 hairs, hence 1000 succesful grafts. That would mean at 85% regrowth, 3400 hairs would grow back, 3000 being the failed extractions, so only 400 succesful extracted follicles, hence a REAL regrowth ratio of only 40%

I would love to hear what she says about this and if this is what they claim as 85% regrowth ... I'd email her myself but Schweinhund doesn't believe anything I quote so it's better you do it.

[gc83uk]

I hope you don't think I'm being pedantic, but when we're throwing these ratios around then it gets confusing. I just want to understand it 100% before I start emailing hasci back etc