Aderans

[534623]

How many papers do you want to study, which CONFIRM Jahoda's 2003-theory? Tell me a number ...

How about the following one - it's an easy to understand one (I think)...
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http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijbm/2012/926059/

Abstract
Stem cell-based therapies offer tremendous potential for skin regeneration following injury and disease. Functional stem cell units have been described throughout all layers of human skin and the collective physical and chemical microenvironmental cues that enable this regenerative potential are known as the stem cell niche. Stem cells in the hair follicle bulge, interfollicular epidermis, dermal papillae, and perivascular space have been closely investigated as model systems for niche-driven regeneration. These studies suggest that stem cell strategies for skin engineering must consider the intricate molecular and biologic features of these niches. Innovative biomaterial systems that successfully recapitulate these microenvironments will facilitate progenitor cell-mediated skin repair and regeneration.
[...]
These microenvironmental cues dictate stem cell function in both health and disease states. Early progress has been made in elucidating skin compartment-specific niches but a detailed understanding of their molecular and structural biology remains incomplete. Biomaterials will continue to play a central role in regenerative medicine by providing the framework upon which to reconstruct functional niches. Future challenges include the characterization and recapitulation of these dynamic environments using engineered constructs to maximize the therapeutic potential of stem cells.
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"compartment-specific niches" - that's the key point. These are extremely difficult to reproduce. You can them at least "duplicate" (bisectioning of hair follicles etc), but - again, difficult to get 1000s of these necessary "compartment-specific niches". Without them - cells do not really know what they should do (that's the simple version). It's like a snake without a head. With ARI's Ji Gami, the snakes even with a head is still there, but the snake's head are "wrong programmed" - they simply work site-specific (as planned by mother nature). You can feed the worms (miniaturized follicles) with lots of cells, and indeed, the worms will get fatter - but they will always be worms, and not anacondas.

[534623]

That 2003 paper is a little thin for me. It's not exactly definitive proof of leakage, and it doesn't really explain what Aderans has been up to in the decade since then, but at least I understand you're argument now so thanks.

How many papers do you want to study, which CONFIRM Jahoda's 2003-theory? Tell me a number ...

[StinkySmurf]

Sure, in theory YES - with multiple rounds of cell injections and such injections FOREVER. But even so (every 3 or 6 or 12 month cells injections into the balding areas), same as with Propecia:
once the time will come, when not even "postponing the inevitable" will work anymore (if Propecia worked at all for you), because mother nature will be simply stronger. It's simply her intention, so to speak, that you SHOULD be bald in these "unique regions" of the skin - same as those tiger babies I mentioned; they SHOULD have stripes and not prickles or something else instead of.

That 2003 paper is a little thin for me. It's not exactly definitive proof of leakage, and it doesn't really explain what Aderans has been up to in the decade since then, but at least I understand you're argument now so thanks.

[534623]

Yes, I still don't understand because I see the picture of the guy with improved hair, and if it takes multiple rounds [of cell injections] and postpones the inevitable, then why is it not a Propecia replacement?

Sure, in theory YES - with multiple rounds of cell injections and such injections FOREVER. But even so (every 3 or 6 or 12 month cells injections into the balding areas), same as with Propecia:
once the time will come, when not even "postponing the inevitable" will work anymore (if Propecia worked at all for you), because mother nature will be simply stronger. It's simply her intention, so to speak, that you SHOULD be bald in these "unique regions" of the skin - same as those tiger babies I mentioned; they SHOULD have stripes and not prickles or something else instead of.

[Thinning87]

Keep Calm And Carry On

Ya'll need to chill out and understand that if anything positive comes out it will be in the news or on the websites. Stop spending 5 hour a day in this thread.

I remain cautiously optimistic as there are reputable folks out there who have also been affected by MPB. They are doing a lot of work and investors are pouring good money in this research, which means someone's gotta be on to something.

I know this won't make everyone happy in here after the new wave of skepticism I just read. But I recommend everyone just take a step back and hit the bars tonight.

In the meantime, I suggest buzzing the hair really short. I did this for the first time 4 days ago to see approximately what I will look like when bald. Well, girls dig it. Seriously, I would have never imagined it. And I don't even have a fully symmetric, well shaped skull. But yeah, definitely much better than I thought, I had my hair like Ryan Gosling and I wish I could continue to have it that way but, guess what, as long as I look decent I'm good because as it's been repeated a thousand times looks are not all in a man. I got some compliments which makes me feel good and I'm gonna hit the clubs all weekend to see how many phone numbers I can get with the new look. I am optimistic!

So again chill out folks. Stay calm and carry on. If you are really depressed about the new insights on the forum, go out to the bars tonight and have an intense swim tomorrow. Get off the forum for a few days and cool off everyone. And buzz the hair really short, I feel awesome I accepted my self for what I will look like in 2 years and moved on. I don't have the thought in the back of my mind anymore! I'll take propecia twice a week just in case something will come out, and if it doesn't work **** it I already feel good about what I'll look like!

[StinkySmurf]

There are, in fact, 2 problems involved.

Here I explained the 1st problem …

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=99905&postcount=887

And here is THE main problem explained…

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602054a.html

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“…having raised the prospect of being able to augment follicle size by recruitment, is balanced by Tobin's evidence of movement of dermal cells not only within the follicle, but outside to the dermis. In skin undergoing androgenetic alopecia, there is the possibility that the balance of migration is altered and incontinence of dermal sheath cells to the skin dermis leads to reduction in size of the dermal papilla, and in turn to miniaturization of the follicle structure. If this leakage is the result of signals from a dermal environment unique to this region of skin, then addition of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable.
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The paper is from 2003, sure; but Dr. Colin Jahoda, THE top scientist concernig "hair" on this planet (at least in my opinion), remains still correct today concerning this issue. With "leakage", he is talking about the whole stem cells MICROENVIRONMENT, which tells the cells, signaling dependent and -skin-region-specific- what to do and WHEN they should do something or not (anymore). That's still the problem. And the microenvironment is very difficult to understand, to analyze, and finally, to reproduce. Really so difficult to understand?

Yes, I still don't understand because I see the picture of the guy with improved hair, and if it takes multiple rounds and postpones the inevitable, then why is it not a Propecia replacement?

[534623]

Are you saying the effect isn't permanent or are you denying any improvement in the photo?

There are, in fact, 2 problems involved.

Here I explained the 1st problem …

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=99905&postcount=887

And here is THE main problem explained…

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602054a.html

*********************************
“…having raised the prospect of being able to augment follicle size by recruitment, is balanced by Tobin's evidence of movement of dermal cells not only within the follicle, but outside to the dermis. In skin undergoing androgenetic alopecia, there is the possibility that the balance of migration is altered and incontinence of dermal sheath cells to the skin dermis leads to reduction in size of the dermal papilla, and in turn to miniaturization of the follicle structure. If this leakage is the result of signals from a dermal environment unique to this region of skin, then addition of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable.
*********************************

The paper is from 2003, sure; but Dr. Colin Jahoda, THE top scientist concernig "hair" on this planet (at least in my opinion), remains still correct today concerning this issue. With "leakage", he is talking about the whole stem cells MICROENVIRONMENT, which tells the cells, signaling dependent and -skin-region-specific- what to do and WHEN they should do something or not (anymore). That's still the problem. And the microenvironment is very difficult to understand, to analyze, and finally, to reproduce. Really so difficult to understand?

[StinkySmurf]

I mean it seems like you are looking at this as a replacement for HT instead of as a replacement for Propecia?

[StinkySmurf]

I mean isn't the effect of Rogaine marginal?

[amibald]

can't we all just get a gho transplant problem solved anyway?

[StinkySmurf]

You're right - they hate me anyhow ...

Anyway - the answer is simple:

During Washenik's presentation - could you see a fully restored tonsure area?
Everything I can see are just some marginal effects around the tonsure transition zones. Period.

What difference does it make if the effect is marginal or not? Are you saying the effect isn't permanent or are you denying any improvement in the photo?

So yeah, I don't get it.

[534623]

I could care less how many people attack me so lets hear it...

You're right - they hate me anyhow ...

Anyway - the answer is simple:

During Washenik's presentation - could you see a fully restored tonsure area?
Everything I can see are just some marginal effects around the tonsure transition zones. Period.

My point is - THE main problem/cause of AGA is with such approches simply not solved, because THE main problem for AGA sticks still in the existing/affected hair follicle structure and this problem has nothing to do with "cells" per se. AGA has simply absolutely nothing to do with a "disease" - absolutely nothing. For example...

These very rare WHITE tiger babies were recently born in Austria.
Why they are white? The tiger stripes in general - where do they come from at all? Why is there such a certain pattern of stripes? Why do AGA patients have such a certain hair loss PATTERN?

Anyway, AGA is basically NOT a stem cells problem per se - Dr. Cotsarelis confirmed this recently. Hair follicle stem cells are still there - even in bald AGA skin. When the "time is ripe", these (stem)cells are simply not prone anymore to produce the necessary progenitor cells for hair growth. And that's THE point:
What exactly is it in general, what tells the cells (skin-region specific!) what they should do or should become and WHEN should they do something at all?
What is it? Exactly this "what-is-it" is not involved in ARI's Ji Gami - insofar, because "what-is-it" is very difficult to reproduce (in the lab or so). In simple words "what-is-it" is something what IS involved with hair transplants and why hair transplants basically work at all. Is all this really so difficult to understand?

[LMS]

Hmm... seems like this thread and a lot of the other cutting edge threads have pretty much degenerated into mental masturbation.

We really don't know shit. We will just have to wait until June or whenever Aderans chooses to give us an update or what not.

[StinkySmurf]

Do you really want that every second user in this forum will attack me??

I mean, the same happend during the "I-love-so-much-Replicel" phase. And the more I backed up my claims and my predictions for their trail results, the more they attacked me. I mean, should I suffer the same fate with the "I-love-so much-Aderans" phase?? For what? For "Being again the scientist of the year" or what?

And by the way, Replicel is broke. That has nothing to do with science nor does it verify or refute any scientific claim. Broke is just broke.

[StinkySmurf]

And I'm sure we're all tired of seeing it, but just for reference, here is the only photo I'm aware of:

[IMG]http://www.*************/hair-loss/img/uploaded/2879_image1232.jpg[/IMG]

So whats the problem with this photo. Shedding?