Final Days: Chinese Scientists Have Solved the DP Culturing Problem! (2014)

[cichlidfort]

That's one way of doing it.

I wonder if men would complain about hair loss if it happened in reverse? In other words we lose hair on the sides and lower back of the head while the top and upper back remain full. Like a high and tight cut.

I've had that exact same thought many times. It would be so much better to lose hair on the sides or back than on top. You could actually style it still and play it off as a style. You can't do diddly squat with hair loss on top.

[nameless]

Those are some pretty bold claims there without any credible sources. Are you a scientist working in the field? Are you researching anything related? Comparing a human hair follicle to the complexity of a human heart. Yawn...another negative nancy that thinks they are being realistic.

cichlidfort, I think that the other poster may have a point. Look how long it's taking for science to correctly clone hair follicles. It's not the easy task you seem to think it is. They've been trying to do this for a long, long time. I can understand someone saying that it's proving to be just as difficult to clone hair as hearts and livers. I think they are very close to cloning livers right now and they still can't clone perfect hairs to restore just one bald man's hair. It's proving to be very difficult to crack this cookie for sure.

[35YrsAfter]

Get hair for the recipient zone by depleting the donor area (as in a normal HT), and then use new follicles to fill the depleted donor area with hair once again. Problem solved, right?

That's one way of doing it.

I wonder if men would complain about hair loss if it happened in reverse? In other words we lose hair on the sides and lower back of the head while the top and upper back remain full. Like a high and tight cut.

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[cichlidfort]

The hair follicle isn't too much less complicated than say the human lung, and maybe it is more so, because we're trying to grow them in a part of the body that doesn't want to grow them. I'd say we're about as close to making new follicles from scratch as we are from using a functional human heart from scratch, about 20 years. In ten years they will probably be able to make them, and then add at least ten years for testing and perfection of implantation etc.

No one has "solved" the problem of hairloss, as people on here have been throwing around. No one knows how the interactions between the native scalp and new hair can be mediated (huge hurdle) or how to make a really cosmetically viable follicle. the only thing they have done this year is prove that DP cells can be cultured without totally losing their genetic markers. bleh. I'm not sure why Xu and the upenn people say that DP cells have to be made from scratch, someone should email that team and tell them to clarify. Couldn't you just culture DP cells?

Those are some pretty bold claims there without any credible sources. Are you a scientist working in the field? Are you researching anything related? Comparing a human hair follicle to the complexity of a human heart. Yawn...another negative nancy that thinks they are being realistic.

[nameless]

And people responded numerous time: when the science on how to do this is out, you BET that there will be tons of doctors who want to become multimillionaires and will offer this in less regulated countries. And 99% of these doctors will be way smarter than Dr Nigam too.

Well, Arishi maybe you're right but it is a little speculative of you to make this assertion. Although I do hope you're right.

[nameless]

Nope. You're wrong there mate. Check out their paper: http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/pdf/Toyo...ncomms1784.pdf


"Furthermore, the human bioengineered hair follicle germ, which was composed of the dissociated bulge region-derived epithelial cells and scalp hair follicle-derived intact DPs of an androgenetic alopecia patient, grew a pigmented hair shaft in the transplantation area within 21 days after intracutaneous transplantation into the back skin of nude mice (Fig. 2b)"

AND

"By analysing the nuclear morphology with Hoechst staining40, we confirmed that the cells in the bioengineered hair follicle were of human origin (Fig. 2b)"

So they took exisiting DP cells from human patients and grew human follicles on mice that way.

So then why isn't hair loss cured? I don't understand. It looks to me like they've cured hair loss according to this paper.

[sdsurfin]

Dp cells

Get hair for the recipient zone by depleting the donor area (as in a normal HT), and then use new follicles to fill the depleted donor area with hair once again. Problem solved, right?

that's what I would be going for if I was an HT doctor. Solves hairloss and also keeps them doing lots of business. this would be especially viable with something like pilofocus, where you are not creating scars every time. The problem is that most of these researchers are more focused on new discoveries than making things operational for hair loss sufferers.

I would really love to know more about the way that balding scalp works- where are the androgen receptors? Only in the DP cells, or just the follicle cells, or all over the entire scalp? I'm glad that if I have a son he won't have to deal with this, but I'm pretty sure we're screwed. Looking at those Tsuji papers, they filed their last paper on hairloss in 2011. three years and nothing new from them. anyone who thinks a cure is coming in five years is nuts. Even the CB thing seems like a complete dead end, if it was the miracle preventative that everyone on here touts it as, people would have seen some results by now. the vehicle can't be so complicated a piece of the puzzle. Has anyone had contact with tsuji or tried to email them? It would be really interesting to know if they made any progress. I tried to use their contact form but its in japanese. Anyone in japan? I think that they are probably the best bet as far as a serious and dedicated team working to make follicles. I'm not faulting anyone or anything, things go as slow as they have to, I'm not a whiner like that hellouser dude who thinks everything is owed to me, but it is frustrating to be part of probably the last generation of bald people.

[clarence]

putting new follicles on balding skin is gonna keep involving new problems. It's like trying to put a new sapling in shitty soil.

Get hair for the recipient zone by depleting the donor area (as in a normal HT), and then use new follicles to fill the depleted donor area with hair once again. Problem solved, right?

[Arashi]

I think they are talking about getting a treatment to market. And as I have asked numerous times lately, what are out options when it comes to avoiding the 10 year delay till it gets to market?

And people responded numerous time: when the science on how to do this is out, you BET that there will be tons of doctors who want to become multimillionaires and will offer this in less regulated countries. And 99% of these doctors will be way smarter than Dr Nigam too.

[Arashi]

actually nobody has made a follicle in a lab. at least not a fully functional, anatomically correct, cosmetically viable one. Not even close. Tsuji made one with mouse dermal papillae and human epithelial cells. The Upenn people made hair-like structures with epithelial cells.

Nope. You're wrong there mate. Check out their paper: http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/pdf/Toyo...ncomms1784.pdf


"Furthermore, the human bioengineered hair follicle germ, which was composed of the dissociated bulge region-derived epithelial cells and scalp hair follicle-derived intact DPs of an androgenetic alopecia patient, grew a pigmented hair shaft in the transplantation area within 21 days after intracutaneous transplantation into the back skin of nude mice (Fig. 2b)"

AND

"By analysing the nuclear morphology with Hoechst staining40, we confirmed that the cells in the bioengineered hair follicle were of human origin (Fig. 2b)"

So they took exisiting DP cells from human patients and grew human follicles on mice that way.

[sdsurfin]

mice

Hell, they even did it themselves "The cells were able to produce human epidermis and hair follicles, which Xu says were “nearly identical to the epithelial stem cells directly isolated from a hair follicle—biochemically, in gene expression, as well as functionally". So they already made a follicle in the lab. So again, that remark has been taken out of context. I think he's talking about making EVERYTHING out of iPS cells (epethelial + DP cells) AND most probably about the day a therapy based on that can hit the market. That's nice, but there's just no need (from the market, us baldies) if DP cells can be cultured.

He made follicles using epithelial cells and mouse DP cells. When there are no mice involved i'll be impressed. mice grow hair like it's their job. their cells are better at it than ours. similarly, tsuji used human epithelial cells and mouse DP cells.

[sdsurfin]

wrong

actually nobody has made a follicle in a lab. at least not a fully functional, anatomically correct, cosmetically viable one. Not even close. Tsuji made one with mouse dermal papillae and human epithelial cells. The Upenn people made hair-like structures with epithelial cells.

As far as the congress is concerned, if you really read the titles, none of them really hint at moving far beyond what jahoda announced last year. They are all about culturing 3D papillae structures and having SOME induction retained. Jahoda already proved that. Hopefully Aaron gardner, who works for him, will announce that they managed to retain more inductivity using epithelial cells. In any case, it's still years away from making a full follicle, and I am very skeptical that even an implanted follicle will thrive in bald scalp. What makes transplants work is that they are transplanted with a chunk of scalp. I'm pretty sure all skin cells in the scalp have androgen receptors, not just DP cells, and so surrounding cells will influence the fate of the follicle.

The hair follicle isn't too much less complicated than say the human lung, and maybe it is more so, because we're trying to grow them in a part of the body that doesn't want to grow them. I'd say we're about as close to making new follicles from scratch as we are from using a functional human heart from scratch, about 20 years. In ten years they will probably be able to make them, and then add at least ten years for testing and perfection of implantation etc. These things never move fast.

No one has "solved" the problem of hairloss, as people on here have been throwing around. No one knows how the interactions between the native scalp and new hair can be mediated (huge hurdle) or how to make a really cosmetically viable follicle. the only thing they have done this year is prove that DP cells can be cultured without totally losing their genetic markers. bleh. I'm not sure why Xu and the upenn people say that DP cells have to be made from scratch, someone should email that team and tell them to clarify. Couldn't you just culture DP cells?

If hairloss is really to be solved anytime soonish, i think they better route is to try to use DP cells and epithelial cells to try to revive split donor hair, or hair selectivelly pruned from the donor using pilofocus. that way at least you can keep a full donor zone and get more transplants. putting new follicles on balding skin is gonna keep involving new problems. It's like trying to put a new sapling in shitty soil.

[nameless]

Hell, they even did it themselves "The cells were able to produce human epidermis and hair follicles, which Xu says were “nearly identical to the epithelial stem cells directly isolated from a hair follicle—biochemically, in gene expression, as well as functionally". So they already made a follicle in the lab. So again, that remark has been taken out of context. I think he's talking about making EVERYTHING out of iPS cells (epethelial + DP cells) AND most probably about the day a therapy based on that can hit the market. That's nice, but there's just no need (from the market, us baldies) if DP cells can be cultured.

I saw the complete paper somewhere and I think that the Chinese are talking about partial preservation of inductivity/trichogenicity. If that is the case then Jahoda accomplished that last year so perhaps the Chinese have not advanced the cause.

[nameless]

I'm pretty sure that comment is taken out of context by the journalist: "He says the ultimate goal is to be able to make a hair follicle in a lab". People already made hair follicles in the lab ! Like Tsuji lab did. Maybe the researcher said that it will be 10 years before it's on the market. Or, maybe he meant that he wants to make a follice totally derived from iPSC cells (so the DP cells too). That maybe complex (and also unnecessary since they can now culture the cells, so no need to induce them from iPSC, it's just an alternative route). But the way it is stated there, just makes NO sense. Again, follicles have already been made in the lab.

I think they are talking about getting a treatment to market. And as I have asked numerous times lately, what are out options when it comes to avoiding the 10 year delay till it gets to market?

[ytterligare]

Yes I thought of the same thing. Most of the article seems plausible, but obviously there is some kind of unwritten law in journalism which says that EVERY article about a future treatment must end with some still-a-long-way-bullshit, even if it's completely inappropriate You could almost call that a rhetorical device by now.