Dr Nigam agrees to doubling slick NW6/NW7

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  • gc83uk
    replied
    Originally posted by JJJJrS
    I'm not a photographer by any stretch, so I'm hardly an expert on the topic.

    But I wasn't really referring to getting clear photos of the 50 graft area. Lots of people have shown that before. But photos that are clear enough that I can know exactly how many hairs are in each follicular unit, with minimal guessing involved? Even with some of your photos that I used in the previous analysis gc, it was hard to know exactly how many hairs were in the follicular unit. The only time I saw photos like that were the microscopic photos HASCI took for the first 50 graft test, but those could only cover a small area. You guys don't think this would be an issue?
    I was going to suggest using one of those microscopic usb cameras, I think Iron Man tried it and it was quite impressive, don't know if you remember.

    I will admit, some of the early photos I did, inlcuding HST3 were all taken with a digital camera, however since using my Samsung Galaxy mobile phone on HST4, I'm confident I can shoot good photos good enough to be able to see if it's indeed a 1/2/3 hair graft. I share your concerns on that, but whoever the subject maybe, it would be wise to test their photography skills before even going to India.

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  • JJJJrS
    replied
    Originally posted by hellouser
    Trust me, its easy taking photos of a 50 graft area.
    Originally posted by gc83uk
    Yea I would have to agree. I take all my photos with a Mobile phone lol and not many people complain about the quality.

    I'm not kidding I could do this with my eyes closed. I'm not trying to downplay it, but 50 grafts really is so easy to photograph!
    I'm not a photographer by any stretch, so I'm hardly an expert on the topic.

    But I wasn't really referring to getting clear photos of the 50 graft area. Lots of people have shown that before. But photos that are clear enough that I can know exactly how many hairs are in each follicular unit, with minimal guessing involved? Even with some of your photos that I used in the previous analysis gc, it was hard to know exactly how many hairs were in the follicular unit. The only time I saw photos like that were the microscopic photos HASCI took for the first 50 graft test, but those could only cover a small area. You guys don't think this would be an issue?

    Leave a comment:


  • gc83uk
    replied
    Originally posted by hellouser
    Trust me, its easy taking photos of a 50 graft area.
    Yea I would have to agree. I take all my photos with a Mobile phone lol and not many people complain about the quality.

    I'm not kidding I could do this with my eyes closed. I'm not trying to downplay it, but 50 grafts really is so easy to photograph!

    Leave a comment:


  • hellouser
    replied
    Originally posted by JJJJrS
    Sounds incredible if true...

    I see a lot of doctors throwing these numbers around with donor regeneration (30%, 60%, 80%, etc.) and I always wonder where they come from? If you didn't pull the numbers out of your ass and actually did some actual analysis, then share the results with everybody. So far, no doctor has been to conclusive prove that their getting donor regeneration, but all of them are throwing these numbers.

    But to get back on topic, what always worried me about these 50 graft tests is the documentation and photos. You have to be able to take pictures that are good enough that we count the number of hairs in each follicular unit. Even for a pro, something like that isn't easy.
    Trust me, its easy taking photos of a 50 graft area.

    Leave a comment:


  • JJJJrS
    replied
    Originally posted by gc83uk
    I said as much a couple of pages back, if the extracted hairs are all 2 hair FU's then with De-novo you should be able to get 200 hairs in recipient and 60% of the donor repaired, equating to a loss of 40 hairs in the donor, net gain of hair on head = 160

    It's also worth noting that Mwamba has told Tom that yields can be as low as 80% in the recipient, so this would have to be taken into account.
    Sounds incredible if true...

    I see a lot of doctors throwing these numbers around with donor regeneration (30%, 60%, 80%, etc.) and I always wonder where they come from? If you didn't pull the numbers out of your ass and actually did some actual analysis, then share the results with everybody. So far, no doctor has been to conclusive prove that their getting donor regeneration, but all of them are throwing these numbers.

    But to get back on topic, what always worried me about these 50 graft tests is the documentation and photos. You have to be able to take pictures that are good enough that we count the number of hairs in each follicular unit. Even for a pro, something like that isn't easy.

    Leave a comment:


  • hellouser
    replied
    Originally posted by tom vercetti
    its not essential indeed

    wrong, between 80 and 100% according to mwamba and he is one of the best in the world..
    Which is still way more than enough to get to a NW0!

    Leave a comment:


  • crafter
    replied
    can someone PLEASE explain whats going on? Has Dr Wamba managed to do Nigam's technique?

    so lost with it all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boldy
    replied
    @ thom,

    |I think its very good what mwamba is doing. He has a big name to keep (top surgeon in the world). He must play safe and check if the results are reproducible on at least 5 patients, before he starts selling it.

    Its a wise decision. also better for us, to know that the results are reproducible. (or not). But Im sure it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • hiilikeyourbeard
    replied
    what's everyone's gut feeling on this?

    Leave a comment:


  • gc83uk
    replied
    Originally posted by JJJJrS
    I wouldn't prioritize one test over the other. Both the NW6->NW2 conversion and 50 graft test procedures are very useful. When the results of the tests are combined, they give you a much more complete picture than one test would be able to on its own.
    Bang on the money

    Originally posted by JJJJrS
    But I would love to see a "de-novo" 50 graft test also. The key would be the documentation and following the proper procedure, i.e. implanting grafts in a slick bald spot.
    I said as much a couple of pages back, if the extracted hairs are all 2 hair FU's then with De-novo you should be able to get 200 hairs in recipient and 60% of the donor repaired, equating to a loss of 40 hairs in the donor, net gain of hair on head = 160

    It's also worth noting that Mwamba has told Tom that yields can be as low as 80% in the recipient, so this would have to be taken into account.

    Leave a comment:


  • gc83uk
    replied
    Originally posted by tom vercetti
    its not i dont want.. Its just i cant see interest.. and still dont..

    they counted both: hair count and FU per cm², both was same in the 4 area.. sounds good enough after a 1600 HT isnt ?

    for the result in terms of % at recipient, its depend of surgeon of course but also from patient to another and also the density (more he wants density, more % will be lower as they need blood vessels to supply)
    You can concentrate on Mwamba and if others want to concentrate on Nigam, then leave them to it. Asking people not to disturb them is frankly ridiculous. Nigam is always happy to discuss on the forums, so leave it at that.

    If the hair count is the same then of course that is fantastic, but I will need to see the photos first

    How is your recipient looking? What is the yield from your first transplant with Nigam?

    Can you just clarify to me, have you had 2 x transplants with Nigam? 1 in mid 2013 and the 2nd in Sept 2013, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • JJJJrS
    replied
    Originally posted by tom vercetti
    its not i dont want.. Its just i cant see interest.. and still dont..

    they counted both: hair count and FU per cm², both was same in the 4 area.. sounds good enough after a 1600 HT isnt ?
    They counted all 1600 follicular units in the donor? Before and after the procedure?

    Leave a comment:


  • JJJJrS
    replied
    Originally posted by Arashi
    I think Nigams should do it. Mwamba isn't done with his training yet, he's going back to India for more training. So theoretically at this moment the best result will be when Nigams does it.

    Yeah the more I think of it, the more it seems a good idea to do a 50 graft test instead of following Thane. We'd need someone we can trust. Someone who is an active member (so won't disappear) and who knows how to shoot photo's. I would then sponsor this person with a ticket and hotel costs. Good idea ?
    I wouldn't prioritize one test over the other. Both the NW6->NW2 conversion and 50 graft test procedures are very useful. When the results of the tests are combined, they give you a much more complete picture than one test would be able to on its own.

    But I would love to see a "de-novo" 50 graft test also. The key would be the documentation and following the proper procedure, i.e. implanting grafts in a slick bald spot.

    Even if Mwamba is planning on doing some tests on his own, I would hope that he would share the results with the online community. Words are not enough, no matter what the reputation of the surgeon is. We need to see conclusive proof.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boldy
    replied
    Originally posted by didi
    we send Iron man, can we trust him, he would pluck em out on the way to hotel and say 0 growth
    lol..

    Leave a comment:


  • tom vercetti
    replied
    Originally posted by gc83uk
    Of course I want the test. I want as many tests as possible.

    I just don't understand why you don't want us to also have Nigam do a test.
    its not i dont want.. Its just i cant see interest.. and still dont..

    they counted both: hair count and FU per cm², both was same in the 4 area.. sounds good enough after a 1600 HT isnt ?

    for the result in terms of % at recipient, its depend of surgeon of course but also from patient to another and also the density (more he wants density, more % will be lower as they need blood vessels to supply)

    Leave a comment:

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