a second HST session in september

[Arashi]

Caddarick, failed extractions are a fact. During my surgery I counted about 12 extractions for every 20 drills. People here didn't believe me (except C5000, who reported the same thing). Final proof of the 'failed extraction' came with the two 50 grafts tests, where they had to drill more than 70 times to get 50 grafts.

We don't know how much this affects gc's results. Immediately after his last surgery he mentioned he didn't think there were many failed extractions. But lateron he said he might have been wrong. We just don't know, but in theory this could have heavily skewed his results (so true regen might be way lower than 65%). You said it's just speculation. That's correct. Well not that failed extractions do happen, that's a fact, but we can only speculate to which extend, same goes for recipient growth, we just don't know.

[Arashi]

Arashi

I remember the days when you used to be more enthusiastic about HST, now you are starting to think more like me.

New info came available and I'm always changing my opinion when there's new info. However I'm not thinking like you. You're convinced Gho is a scammer and he's just splitting grafts. I think that's highly unlikely, just as Ironman's opinion (85% regrowth) is highly unlikely to be true.

If you look at GC, other clinics adviced him a max of 2000 grafts. It seems HASCI is giving him 6000. But if we look at the 50 graft test, we saw that they selected mainly single hair grafts, where tons of 2's and even 3's were available. This also highly optically skews the result. An average graft has 2.5 hairs. If HASCI only transplants 1.3 on average, that means that 6000 HASCI grafts equals 3000 regular FUE grafts. HOWEVER this is stil 50% more than the 2000 others adviced, indiciating 50% regrowth. Also, it seems unlikely that GC had a HUGE amount of failed extractions, I think he'd have noticed. Also, it seems unlikely recipient failed for more than 10%. So a 40-45% regrowth figure also seems likely from that perspective. Hence my theory that regrowth will be in that ballpark (so in the middle of your and IM's theories).

[caddarik79]

you do your own theories based on no real evidence either...
If they regen 80-85% of harvested hairs, the failed extractions don't matter that much, it's not killing the donor.

Recipient, hard to say... yield, hard to say!!
It's true that all in all, it's subject to controverse but I don't buy your calculations either, I repeat, you speculate...

For sure, we need something even better, and we would need bigger sessions and high safe and 100% guaranteed donor regen!!!

I d'ont really agree with didi, you seem to say that it's very easy to make false claims and build a business on that, and have it europeanly patented as well?


I am not like IM, I would never call you stupid, I understand that some shadows still need to be explained.
But AGAIN the two of you are avoiding my question?
What do you think of Joling case after two strips and 3000 grafts lost in the 90's
What do you think of GC going to 6000 and maybe more, do you really think you can reach this number, still have a good donor look with no regeneration and no multiplication?

Where do the hairs he has on top come from?
Take 6000 grafts in FUE and make a high resolution pic of the donor, and tell me if you still think Gho is way below 65% regen!!!

[cocacola]

I think only time will show how much regen there is actually. For now, if you want hair NOW gho is the best option. Also, as caddarik said once they come out with some true hair multiplication it wont matter if you have 99% of your donor left or 10% of donor left.

[FearTheLoss]

True hair multiplication is 10-20 years away...

but Follica and RepliCel could make something better than that anyway.

[Arashi]

you do your own theories based on no real evidence either...
If they regen 80-85% of harvested hairs, the failed extractions don't matter that much, it's not killing the donor.

Recipient, hard to say... yield, hard to say!!
It's true that all in all, it's subject to controverse but I don't buy your calculations either, I repeat, you speculate...

For sure, we need something even better, and we would need bigger sessions and high safe and 100% guaranteed donor regen!!!

I d'ont really agree with didi, you seem to say that it's very easy to make false claims and build a business on that, and have it europeanly patented as well?


I am not like IM, I would never call you stupid, I understand that some shadows still need to be explained.
But AGAIN the two of you are avoiding my question?
What do you think of Joling case after two strips and 3000 grafts lost in the 90's
What do you think of GC going to 6000 and maybe more, do you really think you can reach this number, still have a good donor look with no regeneration and no multiplication?

Where do the hairs he has on top come from?
Take 6000 grafts in FUE and make a high resolution pic of the donor, and tell me if you still think Gho is way below 65% regen!!!

Regarding GC: Again, 6000 HST grafts might equal 3000 FUE grafts. And regarding Joling, I think it's a case AGAINST hasci that he's not going back for more.

But you're right when you say it's all speculation. It's so frustrating that after 15 years of doing business, HASCI can't show us any hard evidence at all. We just have to take their word for it. And the fact that all the Dutch celebrities stopped after 3 HST's, that they even advice clients to do not more than 3 HST's and that they adviced me not to thicken up my temples (while they even said my donor was good), all make me believe that regrowth is (way) lower than 85%. We'll just have to wait till the end of year though, to get the first results from GC's documentation.

[Arashi]

True hair multiplication is 10-20 years away...

I think this is a very pessimistic view. Both Team Tokyo and Jahoda et all already multiplied hair. They 'just' need to get it through trials and optimize it, which should take less than 10 years.

[caddarik79]

do you plan to wait another one year if necessary? (just a question)
Because then, if you talk about being cautious which I respect in the light of your arguments/spéculations, it's better to even wait until GC did his June session, and see what's left in donor...

I am very split

1. I can not believe they run business on false claims, especially with price of treatments.
2. Your spéculations are having a bit of weight due to their lack of transparency and big 10k grafts patients gallery.

[caddarik79]

I see the refusal of my boss for my holidays in september as a sign...

Maybe the coming months are crucial, and it's better to hold on and see...
In the meantime, GC will have rebuild his head of hair, we should party for that when he is done ;-) (forum party, with tons of smileeeyyys, LOL)

One year is a lot of time and in the same time, it goes very fast!!!!

[Arashi]

do you plan to wait another one year if necessary? (just a question)
Because then, if you talk about being cautious which I respect in the light of your arguments/spéculations, it's better to even wait until GC did his June session, and see what's left in donor...

Like said,by september we'll know how many failed extractions gc83uk had in his last procedure. By end of the year we'll know about his donor regrowth. And indeed, by july next year we'll know about recipient growth. However, like said, I have a fairly good shot of my recipient immediately after surgery, I'm going to compare that to my 'final' result in a few months, so that should give me a good idea about recipient growth. Combined with GC's data and Tom's results, I think I/you/we can make a good decision by the end of the year on how to proceed.

[caddarik79]

How come that we willknow about the failed extraction in september? I don't see the link?

Yes, I'm a bit annoyed, I expected to have a denser head of hair for this new year but you are right, we will have much more material to feel comfortable or not by next year...
I mighyt then even decide to see the outcome of GC June procedure...

It will oblige us to keep being happy with our first HST, there are some hair lenght where I see a real improvement, weirdly.

In the meantime, I will take good care of my existing hair, vitamins B, biotin, some aminexil or minoxidil cure in seasonal time... it will always be waaaayyy cheaper than a second HST...

And if in the end, we are reassured about the 85% regen, then I can easily go for another one or two or three... if necessary.

The bonus would be a breaktrough good news from both Nigam and Mousseigne, but for the moment, I am focused on Gho, they are the more legit for today.... but bonus or good surprises are welcome.

Gosh, what a never ending strategy with MBP!!! but long term view already saved me from touchin finasteride or whatever poison, snake oils.

[FearTheLoss]

I think this is a very pessimistic view. Both Team Tokyo and Jahoda et all already multiplied hair. They 'just' need to get it through trials and optimize it, which should take less than 10 years.

I hope you're right brother, but I'm just going off of what Team Tokyo said to a few users in their email and that was "10-20" years until it hits the market.

[FearTheLoss]

I also believe Dr. Wesley's scarless pilofocus technique is going to blow HST out of the water. I believe he's going to get 50%+ regeneration and COMPLETELY SCARLESS.




GAMECHANGER!!!!

AMERICAA!!!!!!!!!

[Arashi]

Caddarik, immediately postop gc's procedure we can count how many times they needed to drill in order to get how many grafts. If these numbers a very close than thats a good indication that his regowth percentage was good last time. Even more if we wait 2 months we'll know how regrowth was for his last session. The only missing factor then will be recipient. But like said i am going to compare my postop fotos to my final situation so that should be enough for me to make a decision by the end of this year.

[sausage]

Yo Guys, I am considering a GHO procedure........

I see he limits his clinics to doing max 3000 grafts per day.....

I see the fees are:

1800 grafts = £8300

1800+ = £2.25 per graft

Due to the fact that they do 3000 grafts a day max, does that mean you can only pay for 3000 grafts at a time?......which therefore mean for future procedures you have to start again with the fees reset?

or can you pay for 6000 grafts in one go therefore taking advantage of the £2.25 per graft fees.

I would like to think it is the latter but thought I'd check.

Also do you know how soon after the first 3000 grafts that they would do the second 3000? Could it be as soon as the next day?