a second HST session in september

[caddarik79]

yes I understand, but you don't know about it...
And I mean, they can not claim so much and hide such a big lie, seriously...

IM is sometimes reacting like a sociopath, but he seems to be the kind of guy who would not play gamble with his donor, and he is very documented, and very confident...

Have you seen the picture before / after at Nigam site? it's a joke...

I'm not saying he will be a scam, I leave him the benefit of doubts, but how can people bash Gho and trust Nigam, where I 've seen many funny things in Nigam and only Professional things in Gho...

Is there something foggy or fishy?
They have several clinics in Europe, they are expending...
They are bashed because they don't share their technique, they protect or over protect themselves...

But I mean, even if I was depleting 50% of my donor, for which I would need numerous HST's, I still have 50% left for hair cloning, and that day, I can even rebuild what was depleted trough my bridging years...

[caddarik79]

seriously, GC looks great, and still he is a special case, and also kind of decided to go faster then what is advised, might be a reason for a lil more shy regen, but still, look at his donor, and Deborah told him they might go for another one or two and then talk...

I mean, after this "other one or two" he can decide to live his life and keep the 4000 donor left in the back for "hair cloning"

[Arashi]

yes I understand, but you don't know about it...
And I mean, they can not claim so much and hide such a big lie, seriously...

IM is sometimes reacting like a sociopath, but he seems to be the kind of guy who would not play gamble with his donor, and he is very documented, and very confident...

Have you seen the picture before / after at Nigam site? it's a joke...

I'm not saying he will be a scam, I leave him the benefit of doubts, but how can people bash Gho and trust Nigam, where I 've seen many funny things in Nigam and only Professional things in Gho...

Is there something foggy or fishy?
They have several clinics in Europe, they are expending...
They are bashed because they don't share their technique, they protect or over protect themselves...

But I mean, even if I was depleting 50% of my donor, for which I would need numerous HST's, I still have 50% left for hair cloning, and that day, I can even rebuild what was depleted trough my bridging years...

People bashing Gho and hailing Nigams, like Didi, are just plain crazy. Nigams has posted 0 reliable evidence. However it's at least very interesting that he's documenting Tom's case, trying to partner up with a European doctor to offer doubling in Europe and Cole visiting him should be quite interesting too.

But I guess my point is: worst case scenario, Didi is right and regrowth doesn't happen at all. Impossible ? Nah, I don't think so. Take a look at gc's case. 65% regrowth excluding failed extractions and excluding monitoring recipient. Let's analyse this with a 1000 *hair* HST example:

1000 taken from donor, 650 growing back. But let's say failed extractions were 30%. That means they've not taken 1000 but 1300 hairs, from which 1000 were transplanted. Let's say 70% survived. So, 1300 hairs gone from donor, 650 back in donor and 700 in recipient. So 1300 hairs became 1350, which is damn close to 0% regrowth.

I'm not saying it happens like this. Not at all, personally I expect regrowth to be around 45%. But what if it's about 0% ? And Dr Nigams turned out to be a scammer ? Then you really have made a bad decision densifying area's, instead of saving donor for area's that might need it much more ...

In about 6 months we'll have much better data to make a better informed decision. I totally understand your decision, but personally I'd like to wait for GC's data.

[Arashi]

Actually the above calculation is not correct but you get the point: failed extractions and limited recipient growth can result in an effective regrowth percentage close to about 0%. Again, I don't expect it to happen but it IS a worst case scenario which I do keep in mind.

[aim4hair]

well, taking under direct sunlight, hair looks terrible in many cases, even for some people who have good head of hair but use GEL. plus, even people with no hairloss, when they have their hair buzzed, in most cases their scalp will show under direct sunlight or spotlights.
but on the positive side, the sun is not there all day..

[didi]

People bashing Gho and hailing Nigams, like Didi, are just plain crazy. Nigams has posted 0 reliable evidence. However it's at least very interesting that he's documenting Tom's case, trying to partner up with a European doctor to offer doubling in Europe and Cole visiting him should be quite interesting too.

But I guess my point is: worst case scenario, Didi is right and regrowth doesn't happen at all. Impossible ? Nah, I don't think so. Take a look at gc's case. 65% regrowth excluding failed extractions and excluding monitoring recipient. Let's analyse this with a 1000 *hair* HST example:

1000 taken from donor, 650 growing back. But let's say failed extractions were 30%. That means they've not taken 1000 but 1300 hairs, from which 1000 were transplanted. Let's say 70% survived. So, 1300 hairs gone from donor, 650 back in donor and 700 in recipient. So 1300 hairs became 1350, which is damn close to 0% regrowth.

I'm not saying it happens like this. Not at all, personally I expect regrowth to be around 45%. But what if it's about 0% ? And Dr Nigams turned out to be a scammer ? Then you really have made a bad decision densifying area's, instead of saving donor for area's that might need it much more ...

In about 6 months we'll have much better data to make a better informed decision. I totally understand your decision, but personally I'd like to wait for GC's data.

Arashi

I remember the days when you used to be more enthusiastic about HST, now you are starting to think more like me.
Im not endorsing dr nigam but the fact he is happy to invite any dr to scrutinize his technique is encouraging and sets him apart from hasci.
we will find out whether legit or not when dr cole visits him, even if he fails or not im happy with transparency and willingness to do free tests..after all tom Frenchman and is happy so far but of course it doesn't mean he is doubling


you are right abt HST its very possible theres around 0 regeneration when you take into account partial/transected extactions,failed extractions and limited growth in recipient (which btw nobody counted so far and its mystery and somehow we assume by default its 100%)

[didi]

' But what if it's about 0% ? And Dr Nigams turned out to be a scammer ?'


in that case we are all screwd...aderans, histogen and others are slow as fck


I can just imagine how thin HST looks in daylight, makes you wonder is it worthd spending all these money for such a poor coverage..35 grafts per cm2=50 hairs ...that's 25-30% original density, of course its gonna look shit and unnutural when compared to non balding area of scalp

[FearTheLoss]

even at 0% regeneration it's still the best available today (unless nigam is real)...because it is scarless, to the human eye....however, this will be changed when the scarless pilofocus technique reaches the market in the next year or so..

I just hope Nigam is legit...if he is faking this all, he doesn't realize how many people's lives he is affecting...if he is legit, he will save us all and we will all be forever grateful to him.

[caddarik79]

they can not really have failed extractions with their material, it removes such a small part that it can not harm the hairs, only the telogens might have a problem to grow back.

The rest of what you say is speculation, I mean, about recipient...
They have a business, they are official, do you really think they can fool thousands of people and still be extending to Jakarta and maybe Singapour?

Isn't it jealousy and frustration that encourage people to bash?

You don't know, and you elude my own arguments when I keep on repeating that GC was a very specific case, and also it did not respect the 9 months, and still has a great donor...
Joling got 2 strips in the 90's and still got three procédures and donor looks great...
Doesn't that give a chance that the 80-85% is legit?

You also counted GC regen a month post op, not 9 months post op/

[cocacola]

I didnt know joling had 2 strips and 3 hst.

[caddarik79]

Yes he got two strips and sacrified 3000 grafts in the 90's.
Still he could do three HST with no problem, and I'm sure he can do another three.

Apart from that, I don't know if I have to take it as a sign, positive or negative, I'm rather frustrated, but my boss rejected my holiday request and I cannot make it for the 3 september in Maastricht.

So if someone is interested, they have some dates, I think 9 October as well.
I won't be able to make it for 2013 because of my job, maybe end of year but rather 2014.

This will force me to wait and then monitor other HST results, I'm a bit upset but, it might also bring me even more confidence to go next year.
GC is a succes so far, that's my opinion, if he receives another two procedures and from there can still go a bit... he is a revolution, whatever basher can say!!!

Nigam, for the moment I'm with no opinion, I see funny and ridiculous things and on the other hand the guy is more then very open, we cannot deny either.

So Arashi, I guess I'm forced to wait, and I will be with you to scrutinize things.


Last thing:

Maybe we should organise a meeting, as Gho patients not living so far from each others, even with GC...
and spend a day fun + check each other results.

[c5000]

they can not really have failed extractions with their material, it removes such a small part that it can not harm the hairs, only the telogens might have a problem to grow back./

Hi Caddarik

Just to let you know, there are DEFINITELY failed extractions. For mine and Arashis HST procedures, there were FAR more drills counted than grafts extracted...

Also Arashi has emailed Hasci about this and they acknowledge failed extractions, but claim that the 85% regeneration figure is over and above the failed extractions (i.e. not including failed extractions where the hair comes back to the surface very quickly).

[caddarik79]

what do you mean by "over and above the..."

Do you really guyz believe that such a huge business can be built on lies? and false claims?
Gho won his trials again competitors bashing him...

I might be naive, but for me, if they were even a little not sure of their technique, they would never ever claim so publicly that they multiply hairs and they have 80-85% regen, almost no loss in donor... I mean, it's big troubles if ever demonstrated that it's not true.

How come they are not sued by anyone? even from this forum... you guyz paid 10K, why don't you go on court if you are so sure they lied to you?

[didi]

what do you mean by "over and above the..."

Do you really guyz believe that such a huge business can be built on lies? and false claims?
Gho won his trials again competitors bashing him...

I might be naive, but for me, if they were even a little not sure of their technique, they would never ever claim so publicly that they multiply hairs and they have 80-85% regen, almost no loss in donor... I mean, it's big troubles if ever demonstrated that it's not true.

How come they are not sued by anyone? even from this forum... you guyz paid 10K, why don't you go on court if you are so sure they lied to you?

you can claim anything these days, just like all HT clinics claim 95%+ growth, its all marketing, nobody ever count hairs and doctors know it

when you take someone to court burden of proof is on you not doctor that you are suing...you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that gho is not multiplying...you see see the problem?

no lawyers would be interested in case as you cant disprove hascis claims

you can test it, call couple of lawyers in your area and tell them about this situation, since you got 0 evidence that hasci cant multiply you cant do nothing and lawyer wouldn't be interested


I actually contacted couple of legal firms just for the sake of testing, in regards to lack of of growth or no growth from FUE..
nobody was interested, as you cant prove shit...unless you got butchered and its really obvious you got fckd up ...but poor yield/no growth..forget abt it

[caddarik79]

anyway, we will have GC who already gave us a lot in terms of documenting and I wish him the best for the next steps, I wish him a succes story, because, sure he will have earned it.

From what I saw in his donor, I'm sure he can go on... I'm curious about the outcome.
The rest of his head seems stable, he his not mbp, he is alopecia aerata, it's different stuff... but his slick area will soon be a thing from the past, + he discovered that shaved look suits him, only good vibes.


I'm confident in the way he documents things so as from next september, things will be interesting and if on top of that, he goes for another in June, we really have a big big case to observe.

I bet that even after his June procedure, he will be able to continue, carefully maybe, but I 'm sure he can go above 6000.


The e-mail received by my boss, the fact that I can not undergo on the 3rd september, I took it as a very upseting thing, but in the end, I will do my second procedure with an even higher trust in the technique, thanks to GC.

Nigam, pictures are not impressive at all, the least we can say... cheating and photoshop stuffs were almost funny, so gross... but his interventions and explanations are interesting, that's why i'll keep an eye on it.

Mousseigne and Mathieu, I trust they are very serious candidate, Mathieu is not too much showing, but he is right... his documentation was top quality (billions kilometers from Nigam).

So, let's say the next six months are interesting... I have euros sleeping at my bank, I should have more availabilities by 2014... I will enjoy the result of my first HST a bit longer then expected but it's fine, I kind of have my HL back, I can wait a bit.