CB-03-01 - new antiandrogenic

[goldnt]

I could of sworn thhey said in one of their previous presentations that they were going to start phase trials 1 for alopecia in either 2,3,4(ik sorry i forgot) quarter of the 2014 year.

[deuce]

I do not know ehy people are saying the alopecia version wont be for another 8 years. The ind for acne was filed 2 years ago and its eta is 2-3 years from now

[FearTheLoss]

what phase are they in for alopecia? when will we get an update? and when is the estimated commercialization?

[Paul73]

It's impossible to really know. It must have passed all its safety tests to get to Phase II, including some pretty significant pre-clinical toxicology trials, so I doubt there is any really significant cancer risk, but since it never went to large-scale testing it's possible.

It's one of the risks you've got to take if you use an unapproved compound, I guess.

Thanks, Pate.
Have you been using RU for a long time? What´s your experience with this?

[Pate]

Good post.

Since you seem to know a lot about RU, what are your thoughts about the cancer risk on it? I mean, the substance was not tested in humans long enough to check this possibility. So how do you know if in the long run it will not cause tumors?

Or we will never know the answer?

Thanks!

It's impossible to really know. It must have passed all its safety tests to get to Phase II, including some pretty significant pre-clinical toxicology trials, so I doubt there is any really significant cancer risk, but since it never went to large-scale testing it's possible.

It's one of the risks you've got to take if you use an unapproved compound, I guess.

[maomao]

I may be wrong, but wasn't the IND for Acne filed in 2012?

Yes - it was - http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/.../12-03-12.aspx

The US Phase II study then started 3 months later (June 2012) and was completed Feb 2014 (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/N...B-03-01&rank=1)

Interestingly, before the US Phase II trials had started, they had already done Phase II studies in Europe - although this doesn't show up anywhere on the EU Clinical Trials register (https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/search). I'm not sure if this is the case with the Alopecia as well?

What I can't find though, is when Cosmos first gave out the Acne cream vehicle - it would be nice to see how long after phase II went active they did that. It might give us a rough time when the alopecia vehicle will be known...

[rdawg]

Yes, Fin+CB would be more effective than CB alone. They have quite different mechanisms. Fin is a 5AR inhibitor while CB is an androgen antagonist. But CB may be effective enough on its own that the benefit of adding fin is not really noticeable. I for one plan to discontinue fin as soon as I can get a reliable, proven source of CB in an effective vehicle.

Thanks for answering this is what I thought. Essentially Fin is more systemic/general CB is more localised.

I think aggressive sufferers need a two-pronged approach, I don't suffer from sides but my hair is very slowly getting worse(i've been NW3 for about 2 years now, but I'm guessing I'll be NW4 within the next two years)

Either way if we can get CB here AND BIM as well, it may be a very good booster for our hair while we wait for a more complete, advanced solution that may come down the road.

[Paul73]

Yes, Fin+CB would be more effective than CB alone. They have quite different mechanisms. Fin is a 5AR inhibitor while CB is an androgen antagonist. But CB may be effective enough on its own that the benefit of adding fin is not really noticeable. I for one plan to discontinue fin as soon as I can get a reliable, proven source of CB in an effective vehicle.

CB+RU would probably just be like applying a double dose of one or the other.

RU shouldn't really have androgenic systemic effects, from what work has been done. It has a tiny systemic effect, but the active metabolite of RU is very much in the minority - something like 1%. The other 99% of metabolised RU is inactive, like the metabolite of CB. So CB and RU should both have basically no systemic sides.

So when guys are reporting sides from RU, I can only really see three explanations:

1. The research was wrong about RU and it's more systemic than first thought
2. These guys getting sides are SERIOUSLY sensitive to anti-androgens
3. There is a placebo component to the sides

I have mild sides from fin but nothing at all from RU, which is I believe what the vast majority of guys will experience.

Good post.

Since you seem to know a lot about RU, what are your thoughts about the cancer risk on it? I mean, the substance was not tested in humans long enough to check this possibility. So how do you know if in the long run it will not cause tumors?

Or we will never know the answer?

Thanks!

[Pate]

Wouldn't it be a different story with Fin+CB though as fin is systemic while RU is topical?

I'm essentially saying wouldn't it help inhibit more and do more to halt the loss?

Yes, Fin+CB would be more effective than CB alone. They have quite different mechanisms. Fin is a 5AR inhibitor while CB is an androgen antagonist. But CB may be effective enough on its own that the benefit of adding fin is not really noticeable. I for one plan to discontinue fin as soon as I can get a reliable, proven source of CB in an effective vehicle.

CB+RU would probably just be like applying a double dose of one or the other.

RU shouldn't really have androgenic systemic effects, from what work has been done. It has a tiny systemic effect, but the active metabolite of RU is very much in the minority - something like 1%. The other 99% of metabolised RU is inactive, like the metabolite of CB. So CB and RU should both have basically no systemic sides.

So when guys are reporting sides from RU, I can only really see three explanations:

1. The research was wrong about RU and it's more systemic than first thought
2. These guys getting sides are SERIOUSLY sensitive to anti-androgens
3. There is a placebo component to the sides

I have mild sides from fin but nothing at all from RU, which is I believe what the vast majority of guys will experience.

[rdawg]

Well let me put it to you this way then perhaps you understand. If you were both to apply RU and CB in the same %. You are yielding pretty much CB useless because it will lose competing to the androgen receptor.

Wouldn't it be a different story with Fin+CB though as fin is systemic while RU is topical?

I'm essentially saying wouldn't it help inhibit more and do more to halt the loss?

Your last sentence may be true now, but it seems clear that science is figuring a way to awaken those 'damaged' cells. So what we clearly need to worry about is maintenance and getting any growth that we can now and in the near future until a major product comes out in the next decade.

[Swooping]

I think it would be of interest for agressive hairloss sufferers and in general with it's stacking affect.

Mixing fin with CB which supposedly has a very good safety profile can potentially halt or improve the hair on an aggressive hairloss sufferer.

RU I don't feel as it's worth it imo as I've seen similar side effects happen to people and it just seems that CB for a similar price would be better.

Well let me put it to you this way then perhaps you understand. If you were both to apply RU and CB in the same %. You are yielding pretty much CB useless because it will lose competing to the androgen receptor.

But yeah, the lack of supposedly side effects for CB is extremely nice that will help out many people who generally are very susceptible to side effects whether that is from fin, dut , ru etc.

But prevention is one thing, when damage to the cells is done and it is to late you ain't going reverse your hairloss even if you were to inhibit the AR 100% and stop androgens completely from binding. Simple as that.

[deuce]

Last I talked to them they said that the cream cannot be used on the scalp because the delivery vehicle and formula and concentration are all different.

There is no way they are going to tell people what the vehicle and recipe are. they are trying to sell it. we're gonna have to wait. we also don't even know if this stuff works or how well it will work, people on here hype shit up so much it's ridiculous. androgens are only part of the problem, as has been proved by finasteride. this might be a nice treatment, but a POC will take a year, phase one another, phase two another, phase three another etc. it takes 8 years to go through trials, maybe take two off if we're lucky because it's proven safe for acne. and then still I'm sure it will have side effects if it does work. everything has side effects, which is why stem cell treatments are exciting, because they di not use foreign drugs.

I may be wrong, but wasn't the IND for Acne filed in 2012?

[rdawg]

CB-03-01 is just as , or just a bit less powerful than RU58841. So whoever has hope for him miraculously regrowing all his hair with it, forget about it. 1% will be to weak to use for alopecia, just as RU58841 doesn't perform at 1%.

Prevention is key though, and cb-03-01 will really be extremely nice for young people (and everyone) who can hop on it and don't have to deal with possible anti-androgenic side effects.

I think it would be of interest for agressive hairloss sufferers and in general with it's stacking affect.

Mixing fin with CB which supposedly has a very good safety profile can potentially halt or improve the hair on an aggressive hairloss sufferer.

RU I don't feel as it's worth it imo as I've seen similar side effects happen to people and it just seems that CB for a similar price would be better.

[maomao]

Last I talked to them they said that the cream cannot be used on the scalp because the delivery vehicle and formula and concentration are all different.

There is no way they are going to tell people what the vehicle and recipe are. they are trying to sell it. we're gonna have to wait. we also don't even know if this stuff works or how well it will work, people on here hype shit up so much it's ridiculous. androgens are only part of the problem, as has been proved by finasteride. this might be a nice treatment, but a POC will take a year, phase one another, phase two another, phase three another etc. it takes 8 years to go through trials, maybe take two off if we're lucky because it's proven safe for acne. and then still I'm sure it will have side effects if it does work. everything has side effects, which is why stem cell treatments are exciting, because they di not use foreign drugs.

POC is phase one and phase two. (Unless I'm mistaken)

As for the vehicle, the acne one is known, which is why I'm guessing the alopecia one would become known when trials start.

[Swooping]

CB-03-01 is just as , or just a bit less powerful than RU58841. So whoever has hope for him miraculously regrowing all his hair with it, forget about it. 1% will be to weak to use for alopecia, just as RU58841 doesn't perform at 1%.

Prevention is key though, and cb-03-01 will really be extremely nice for young people (and everyone) who can hop on it and don't have to deal with possible anti-androgenic side effects.