Updated Research and Knowledge - Cutting Edge

[Seuxin]

To Seek : Modulation of Androgen Receptor Activity by P160

https://www.google.fr/search?tbm=bks&hl=fr&q=Modulation+of+Androgen+Receptor+Activity+by+P160#q=Modulation+of+Androgen+Receptor+Activity+by+P160&hl=fr

[Keeper]

Any Update Chemical?

[gchr]

Chemical apologize for previous post, my edit didn't go through and some remarks don't make sense.

I was curious how can you be sure that your mixtures / suggestions are working and it isn't because of the Minoxidil only?

I have read some people have bad experience with keta shampoo / nizoral and experience massive hair falling out. I don't want to risk having clumps of my hairs gone

Also there was a lot of users that got on the RU wagon but later on people experienced side effects with RU too and now CB is suppose to be the miracle...

[gchr]

Hi Chemical,

You have a lot of information posted on here. I haven't been able to read all of it, a bit overwhelmed reading all of fgf11. It seems like a lot of interesting assumptions but as others pointed out in his post, they are skeptical if he is really correct. Then again I don't know why someone would put that much time to type something fake.

I was curious how can you for sure that your assumptions are working? For example hair loss may be a factor of many complex things so how do you go about it? Also I somewhat agree with you regarding how companies indicate they are only a few years away but do you really think Replicel / Histogen / other treatments aren't going to work or be available soon? (They mentioned in 2018)

Also im curious about some of your pics, do you have any better pics to share? I try to stay away from forums because a lot of times people can manipulate their pics etc.

Can you make a post on the exact supplements you are taking and dosages? I know one of them was Oleuropein.

BTW what is your take on biotin, saw palmetto with Beta-Sitosterol, pumpkin seed oil extract? Some have calimed saw palmetto did nothing but i wonder if they took it with the beta sitosterol

[Bobbylobbyhobbythrobby]

Thanks Chemical, much appreciate the in depth response. Really is fascinating stuff.

[iaskdumbquestions]

Chemical, thank you for all of your hard work and for sharing it with everyone here. Not only that, but you take the time to respond to everyone's questions without any arrogance.

It seems that your regiment has evolved since you began this thread and that it continues to change. Do you think you're near a point where you will have finalized the regiment or do see it being a work in progress indefinitely?

Also, what is your opinion on the current pipeline of treatments? Which do you think will have the greatest chance of success if any? (Replicel, histogen, SM, CB, etc.)

Thanks again. I wish I were half as knowledgable as you on this.

[Chemical]

I couldnt find where he discussed oluropein. It would be nice if he referenced his comments. However he does have Oleuropein listed in his protocols table.

Sadly he hasnt stated "the other mechanisms" by which PGE2 works. But regardless, whatever other mechanism PGE2 uses, all pathways that grow hair converge on β-Catenin. Every single treatment that grows hair stops working in the presence of a β-Catenin inhibitor. Be it DKK-1 which inhibits WNT induced β-Catenin, or PGD2 which inhibits β-Catenin via GSK3β/PKC, to grow hair you need β-Catenin. If people are going to deny this fact then at least clarify how you think this whole thing works.

You are right, he is on DUT for 3 years. Not sure if he still is. But if he is then it sure as hell is helping his results. This is dutasteride we're talking about.

Dut won't inhibit PGD2. Even with zero DHT you will still have PGD2 in your scalp which keeps you from regrowing hair.
Do you understand what I mean? Here's a diagram. http://i.imgur.com/ujqSDHS.png

I think with zero DHT you will have alot less PGD2 - judging from that diagram. No DHT doesnt mean no Testosterone so its AR that needs to be blocked. And plus not everyone is sensitive to PGD2 anyway.

[paleocapa89]

Hi, thanks for your work, I'm vary fascinated by your and swisstemle's work. I just wanted to add two things that I noticed:

1: Swiss posted this on reddit, and ask.fm: "Oleuporin is a dud I discussed this with a very helpful guy on my ask.fm. Beta catenin is not the only way in which pge2 works, not at all", and "Oleic acid is a precursor to PGE2/PGF2a. It doesn't however really boost the snythesis itself from what I see." Maybe you can do something with this information, I certainly can't

2: Swiss is on dutasteride to my best knowledge, so he does have the AR/DHT pathway covered.

[TubZy]

Thoughts on thymosin beta 4?

[Chemical]

Hi Chemical, Swiss seems to think that Oleuropein is Decreases PGD2 (COX ?) a WNT agonist, do you think we should limit its use on some days?

A reduction in PGD2 is what we want so if OL does decrease it - even better!

On the topic of Swiss, I think his methodology is off. His belief that DHT/AR is irrelevent and PGD2 is the only factor we need to address is inaccurate. Theres insurmountable evidence that Androgens significantly blunt hair growth by inhibiting β-Catenin accumulation. Sure he's seen some progress, but with the amount of β-Catenin he's increasing by inhibiting GSK3β (with VA + LiCl) and wounding (PGE2) I'm not surprised he believes he's on the right track. Alot of people can achieve regrowth with aggressive growth agonists. If he incorporates some form of AR/5ar suppressor then he'd be nw0 already. Hes trying to make his car go faster while having his foot still on the brakes (logic?).

You can get away with not targeting PGD2 itself by attacking its downstream cascades: GSK3β and PKC (references in new thread soon) with EGCG, Valproic Acid, OL, Anything that activates PKA (GSK3β inhibitors) + Apple polyphenols (procyanidin mediated PKC inhibition). Or if you suppress 5ar/AR you can prevent the PTGDS rise from the top.

Anyway, i wish guys all the luck in your efforts but personally for me all this time and money invested just isn't worth it. Until something more permanent comes out CRISPR, Replicel or Histogen then i might just entertain shaving it.

Your hair doesnt look too bad. Unfortuneately alot of us including myself dont look good with a shaved head. I'm getting tired of seeing treatments that are always 2-5 years away. People on forums have been saying this for years, I remember when I first started receding at 17 there were cures supposedly 2-3 years away and it's still the same. The only cure I can think of is transplanting sideburn hair along the nw0 hairline evenly spaced out. The sideburn hairs are the first to respond to androgens so they have greater potential to secrete IGF-1 to nearby follicles which should slow down the effects of T/DHT. Then you can just get away with the occasional topical 5ar suppressor like GLA (more on this later) or keto or some other mild maintenance treatment. Thats the best cure I can realistically think of atm. A hair transplant is out of the question, the density and natural direction of growth is never the same. All these cell replication treatments dont look too promising either - how are they going to create a functioning ORS to form the hair canal itself? The DPC is useless without a canal/surrounding epithelial cells.

Any help ?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18283040

It would be useful if it worked topically without going systemic. I've known about tomatoes being bad for men, but I hadnt thought about its applications in AGA. Will do more research on this.

But what I found most strange is that 3.5 months ago I started taking this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002ZS6E8...HR6BHBZD4JB9QY) orally to rid myself of the Giardia bug. I took it for about a month, having a teaspoon with each meal 3 times a day.

After a month of stopping this supplement, I started heavily shedding and have not stopped since. I now wonder after reading your in depth knowledge Chemical, specifically about olive leaf extract whether this would have been a major contributor to my rapid balding?

Taken orally Oleuropein can increase systemic WNT10b levels and reduce adipogenesis/increase osteogenesis. In the case of skin, this translates to enhanced keratinocyte proliferation and hair growth. It has the potential to work to increase hair if taken systemically - especially seeing as you were spacing it out throughout the day. (high doses have been shown not to have any effect so your single teaspoon might have been perfect). If it did prolong anagen then you're seeing the catch-up shed which happens when the anagen cycle is artificially extended. I dont fully understand how the feedback cycle works but the BMP signals try to reset the cycle to telogen as the hair progresses into late anagen. This is all speculation, it could all be coincidence.

what do you think about fgf11 approach with AR receptors? might he has found out something interesting??

I share his view that AR is root cause. His idea of viral gene transfection is not new but the application is the interesting part. The cost is a concern too. If he has figured out what he claims he has then I think it'll be revolutionary. A few injections to permanently turn off the AR gene is a cure imo. Executing it is easier said then done. Alternatively if we can permanently downregulate an AR coactivator to blunt the effects of AR by 50%+ thats kind of a semi cure too. There might even be a supplement out there that does this already but we havent found it yet.

JUSTBREEZY
Hey man some thing happen to me with seborreah(severe dundruff with patches) and not only terrible thinning but also very poor quality of hair. My doctors said that you can not cure this.

Have you tried zinc pyrithione shampoos (H&S classic) or selenium sulfide (selsun blue) shampoos to at least manage the symptoms?

Chemical, Do you think human growth horomone (hgh) can inhibit the production DHT?

I've done a fair bit of research on HGH and its conflicting as to whether HGH modulates the HPTA axis. I've not read anything that mentions HGH physically interfering with 5ar or AR, but the possibility of it effecting the LH/HPTA loop is there (testosterone production).

Anyways. I'm sorry I havent been posting lately, I've been busy gathering all the research into one big easy to read pile which I'll be posting in a separate read-only thread.

As for my progress update. I'm going through a shed which I'm not happy about. It could mean new hairs? But then I'd have to wait 2 months for the density to come back so whats the frickin point of new hairs. I've bought a 6 months supply of minox because I keep forgetting to but more. I've also bought some Valproic acid which'll be here next week. I plan to use 5% mixed with minox, that should definitely speed up growth. I've been using the following solution for the past 10 days:

Minox
OL 1mg/ml
EGCG ~8mg/ml
GLA 2.6mg/ml

I'm seeing more terminal hairs pop up along my nw1 hairline, not visible on camera but I can feel/see them (will post pics soon). The hairs I regrew on my left side are seem to be getting thicker but I cant tell for sure. The GLA might actually be doing something... I've come across some new research regarding safflower oil and theres a genetically modified version (Sonova 400) that has 400mg of GLA per 1000mg. Normal safflower doesnt contain GLA at all lol. The EPO I'm using only has a measly 80mg so I think a higher dose is what I need to really inhibit 5ar. I'm going to get my hands on this GLA, and also because safflower (what sonova uses) also has the ability to grow hair independent of GLA. I'll be posting an analysis soon.

I was going over the research on EGCG and it seems it might not be as strong as I'd anticipated so I'm going to get some Rosemary too. Chuck in apple polyphenols for good measure. I'm going all out because I really dont want to have to wait 2 months just to get my density back.

[UNBEAT]

BIGSEAN
NO i havent tried. Do you think it can work?

[BigSean]

UNBEAT, have you tried apple cider vinegar as a treatment?

[BigSean]

Chemical,

Do you think human growth horomone (hgh) can inhibit the production DHT? I read about studies which shows intermittent fasting to increase hgh levels by up to 2000%.

[UNBEAT]

JUSTBREEZY
Hey man some thing happen to me with seborreah(severe dundruff with patches) and not only terrible thinning but also very poor quality of hair.
Seems like a mouse hair. I have been 2 years with this and i havent find out something that work.
My doctors said that you can not cure this.

[UNBEAT]

CHemical
what do you think about fgf11 approach with AR receptors? might he has found out something interesting??