Updated Research and Knowledge - Cutting Edge

[Bobbylobbyhobbythrobby]

I'm very new here, but find this all extremely fascinating. I had no former signs of balding until roughly 2.5 months ago. For the last 8 months I have been trying to tackle a Giardia infection, I believe I may have gotten rid of it (although I am still having problems digesting fat and particularly lactose.) But what I found most strange is that 3.5 months ago I started taking this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002ZS6E8...HR6BHBZD4JB9QY) orally to rid myself of the Giardia bug. I took it for about a month, having a teaspoon with each meal 3 times a day.

After a month of stopping this supplement, I started heavily shedding and have not stopped since. I now wonder after reading your in depth knowledge Chemical, specifically about olive leaf extract whether this would have been a major contributor to my rapid balding?

[justbreezy]

I too started losing hair slowly thinning and a few months after I got a fierce onset of sebhorreic dermititis. Sebhorreic dermititis might expedite the hair loss. The treatment for it is ketocotonazole(Nizoral).

Totally, definitely can see it speeding up the process. I felt my hair was itchy, but never thought much about it. I went to the barbers for a haircut, he started brushing my hair and there was chunks of hair coming out attached to yellow-ish flakes. Not only embarassing but quite shocking, initially i did a search and thought maybe i have TE, but it didn't take me long to work out it was my families history of AGA.

[potato1987]

Any help ?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18283040

and

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/22104-Updated-Research-and-Knowledge-Cutting-Edge?p=229032#post229032

[Swooping]

Thank you for your extensive response Chemical.

[Sogeking]

Revita shampoo contains Procyanidin B-2 and Ketoconozale in it's ingredients. I was purely using that for a few months after my really bad shed in the summer. I think it helped decrease the shedding and added a touch of regrowth, but i was using it almost daily and after getting dermatitis you should regrow hair a little. I would say it helped, but without stopping the minituarization of the follicles its pointless.

My shedding started after a festival, seems i had developed a case of sebhorreic dermititis. I had been dandruff free since my teenage years, so to have an onset of dermatitis was even quite shocking. I feel like the severe shed was triggered from after a severe case of the flu, overly sweating too much at a festival and having to shower with water which was pumped and filtered from the sea. For the first month or two, i would get a really severe burning on the back left side of my scalp, then it shifted to the top then the sides and currently the front. My hair went from brown and thick to now black and thinning, my hair had always been receeding but slow enough for me not to notice, now it's receeding at the temples and pretty bad at the front where the hair used to be really strong and thick.

Post Dermititis: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/vbsrmuis7...tOVmG5AFY13jha
November: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/o9bgv5475...k67KI_9sTtRE7a
Last week: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/mc7zqqt8n...d727nCjgFsWN1a

Hadn't used fin, minoxidil.. just Revita and Stemyoxidine. Now, i'm using regenpure. I can see my hair is thinning out, compared to how it used to be. Having said that, up untill this month from August i had no waves in my hair which is exactly how it used to be before the shed. I have naturally curly hair when i was young, i have to say somewhat it's straighter and less thick, but as you can see it's not a terrible recovery. But the hair quality is pretty crappy, i can't use styling product and combing the hair upwards/tightness can feel a tight pulling at times. I'm 26 just for an age reference.

Anyway, i wish guys all the luck in your efforts but personally for me all this time and money invested just isn't worth it. Until something more permanent comes out CRISPR, Replicel or Histogen then i might just entertain shaving it.

I too started losing hair slowly thinning and a few months after I got a fierce onset of sebhorreic dermititis. Sebhorreic dermititis might expedite the hair loss. The treatment for it is ketocotonazole(Nizoral).

[justbreezy]

Revita shampoo contains Procyanidin B-2 and Ketoconozale in it's ingredients. I was purely using that for a few months after my really bad shed in the summer. I think it helped decrease the shedding and added a touch of regrowth, but i was using it almost daily and after getting dermatitis you should regrow hair a little. I would say it helped, but without stopping the minituarization of the follicles its pointless.

My shedding started after a festival, seems i had developed a case of sebhorreic dermititis. I had been dandruff free since my teenage years, so to have an onset of dermatitis was even quite shocking. I feel like the severe shed was triggered from after a severe case of the flu, overly sweating too much at a festival and having to shower with water which was pumped and filtered from the sea. For the first month or two, i would get a really severe burning on the back left side of my scalp, then it shifted to the top then the sides and currently the front. My hair went from brown and thick to now black and thinning, my hair had always been receeding but slow enough for me not to notice, now it's receeding at the temples and pretty bad at the front where the hair used to be really strong and thick.

Post Dermititis: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/vbsrmuis7...tOVmG5AFY13jha
November: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/o9bgv5475...k67KI_9sTtRE7a
Last week: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/mc7zqqt8n...d727nCjgFsWN1a

Hadn't used fin, minoxidil.. just Revita and Stemyoxidine. Now, i'm using regenpure. I can see my hair is thinning out, compared to how it used to be. Having said that, up untill this month from August i had no waves in my hair which is exactly how it used to be before the shed. I have naturally curly hair when i was young, i have to say somewhat it's straighter and less thick, but as you can see it's not a terrible recovery. But the hair quality is pretty crappy, i can't use styling product and combing the hair upwards/tightness can feel a tight pulling at times. I'm 26 just for an age reference.

Anyway, i wish guys all the luck in your efforts but personally for me all this time and money invested just isn't worth it. Until something more permanent comes out CRISPR, Replicel or Histogen then i might just entertain shaving it.

[bluesuedeshoes]

Yes, you will have some residual sediment which does not dissolve. Just shake it each time you are ready to apply. You are probably right about the OL. It is partially soluble only in fat / oil. Not to worry. The sebum in the skin will most likely break the residual down further. The more alcohol you use, the more possibility of irritation, but, you can alter the mixture as you go and respond.

Thanks. If I notice anything I'll report back. Your input has been greatly appreciated.

[BRIANBOY]

I followed BrianBoy's protocol, with slightly less EGCG. Around 700mg EGCG and 300mg OL in 60ml (40ml distilled water, 20ml Eth (95%)). With some drops of Jojoba, Rosemary extract, tea tree and bergamot oil.

Does not seem to fully dissolve though. Solution is cloudy and sediment is floating around. Guess at least a lot of it is dissolving and will still be effective?!

Maybe less water and more eth is needed? Think it's the OL that is tougher to dissolve.

Yes, you will have some residual sediment which does not dissolve. Just shake it each time you are ready to apply. You are probably right about the OL. It is partially soluble only in fat / oil. Not to worry. The sebum in the skin will most likely break the residual down further. The more alcohol you use, the more possibility of irritation, but, you can alter the mixture as you go and respond.

[potato1987]

Hi Chemical, Swiss seems to think that Oleuropein is Decreases PGD2 (COX ?) a WNT agonist, do you think we should limit its use on some days?

[bluesuedeshoes]

I followed BrianBoy's protocol, with slightly less EGCG. Around 700mg EGCG and 300mg OL in 60ml (40ml distilled water, 20ml Eth (95%)). With some drops of Jojoba, Rosemary extract, tea tree and bergamot oil.

Does not seem to fully dissolve though. Solution is cloudy and sediment is floating around. Guess at least a lot of it is dissolving and will still be effective?!

Maybe less water and more eth is needed? Think it's the OL that is tougher to dissolve.

[Sogeking]

Hey Chemical thank you for the effort mate. This may or may not work for me but at least I am trying something instead of sitting on my ass and complaining.

[Chemical]

seriously need the article with all info contained in a single post :-)

For EU residents, which products do you recommend we buy? It'd be nice to have an easy table from which US/EU residents can easily buy the ingredients. Same for the new ones you seem to have added (apple polyphenols, rosemary extract, etc) - dosage, etc..

I'm writing everything up as we speak. I'll put it all in a separate thread so its easier to find. I think we should have this thread for disussion and progress logs and the new thread just for research and treatment info.

Is there a certain egcg I should look for on Amazon or will any do?

I'm using swansons Teavigo which has EGCG standardized to 90% (150mg actual per capsule). You can use a different brand but if the EGCG is low you might end up saturating the solution with other ingredients reducing the amount of EGCG penetrating the skin.

Chemical what Evening primrose oil? I finally got all the components and am also trying to add rosemary and apple polyphenols from the start. I also intended to add Evening primrose oil, should I add it independently from the ECGC/OL solution? Or do you think its not worth using it at all?

I would recommend not mixing any oils with minox, I've learnt my lesson now. The EPO might absorb better after using an ethanol solution which will weaken the stratum corneum's barrier function. I think using the EPO by itself or mixed with Emu Oil would be ideal. Any subsequent treatment after EPO may not absorb properly until its completely gone or cut down by ethanol again. The EPO may not be convenient but if you want to use it, then using it at night after everything else has absorbed should be fine. I'm still testing it but I'm not sure if it'll work as good as EGCG or rosemary (I dont know how well it absorbs). I bought the capsules and dumped the contents of one cap into my minox. I noticed it leaves my scalp very smooth and soft.

Chemical - I am using about 4-6 ml EtOH 70% in the distilled water solution of 74ml. Also, I am using the Green Tea / EGCG 40% blend, which I find better than just pure EGCG. I feel the compliment of green tea polyphenols as well as EGCG have a positive effect.

Yes I do remember you saying that but wouldnt a 70/30 Ethanol/water solution be more optimal? And I did read that the other catechins present in green tea possess 5ar suppressing effects - I'm looking for the study.

Procyanidin B-2, extracted from apples, promotes hair growth: a laboratory study

Procyanidin B-3, isolated from barley and identified as a hair-growth stimulant, has the potential to counteract inhibitory regulation by TGF-beta1

Procyanidin oligomers counteract TGF-beta1- and TGF-beta2-induced apoptosis in hair epithelial cells: an insight into their mechanisms.

Investigation of the topical application of procyanidin oligomers from apples to identify their potential use as ahair-growing agent.

Excellent finds Seuxin! I will be adding these to the post on Apple polyphenols in the new thread (with credit to you).

[Seuxin]

* Procyanidin B-2, extracted from apples, promotes hair growth: a laboratory study :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11841365

* Procyanidin B-3, isolated from barley and identified as a hair-growth stimulant, has the potential to counteract inhibitory regulation by TGF-beta1 :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12473061

* Procyanidin oligomers counteract TGF-beta1- and TGF-beta2-induced apoptosis in hair epithelial cells: an insight into their mechanisms :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16778458

* Investigation of the topical application of procyanidin oligomers from apples to identify their potential use as ahair-growing agent :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17168871

[BRIANBOY]

Chemical - I am using about 4-6 ml EtOH 70% in the distilled water solution of 74ml. Also, I am using the Green Tea / EGCG 40% blend, which I find better than just pure EGCG. I feel the compliment of green tea polyphenols as well as EGCG have a positive effect.

[Sogeking]

I've stupidly mixed some evening Primrose oil with the remainder of my minox and then found out GLA enhances the skins barrier function. So I might not see any more regrowth for the next two weeks. My mid scalp is shedding and I've been skipping applications the last few days. Luckily the hairs that I regrew arent thinning and are getting longer so its not too bad. Ultimately I want to find a set of treatments that I can put in a cream and just use that for the rest of my life. This liquid vehicle formulation is very difficult to be consistent with and I have to keep my head tilted back until it dries, which sucks because I dont always have time/feel bothered to do.
I know about polysorbate 80 and DMI that can be used to create creams (courtesy of Seuxin), but I wonder if gels might be better suited for drugs that dissolve better in ethanol vehicles.

Chemical what Evening primrose oil? I finally got all the components and am also trying to add rosemary and apple polyphenols from the start. I also intended to add Evening primrose oil, should I add it independently from the ECGC/OL solution? Or do you think its not worth using it at all?