Where are the phase IIb results for Bimatoprost?

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Again, you don't know .3% was previously tested. You have no way of knowing that. To answer your question, people who want to try it give a "rat crap" what the actual concentration is. You are telling people that you know, factually, that 3% is the optimal dosage, when in fact you are just assuming that. Someone who reads that might go out and start using an expensive compound at 3x the concentration that is necessary. All signs point to bimatoprost working better than minoxidil, but it is very important to know the optimal dosage. Let's not tell people we know what it is when we really don't.

AGAIN, It shows in the patent that .3% was previously tested in patients. It gives actual evidence. Then it goes on to describe how and why it arrived at that range of 2.5%-3.5%. I'm not making anything up. You are assuming I am because you refuse to READ any material on your own.

It isn't important to know the optimal dosage because pure bimatoprost powder costs $700-$900 per GRAM. Go buy some if you're so curious, and let us know how it goes. I'll wait until a product is distributed worldwide and becomes much more affordable.

[unbalding]

You are trying to nitpick.

Bottom line: .3% was previously tested, and that is also included in the patent, if you bothered to do some reading. Also, who gives rat crap what the actual number for the concentration is? They figured it out, and they are moving forward with bim as they plainly stated. They have said all along that if it is noticeably stronger than minox, they will move forward with it and bring it to market. All signs point to them doing just that.

You are quibbling over BS.

Again, you don't know .3% was previously tested. You have no way of knowing that. To answer your question, people who want to try it give a "rat crap" what the actual concentration is. You are telling people that you know, factually, that 3% is the optimal dosage, when in fact you are just assuming that. Someone who reads that might go out and start using an expensive compound at 3x the concentration that is necessary. All signs point to bimatoprost working better than minoxidil, but it is very important to know the optimal dosage. Let's not tell people we know what it is when we really don't.

[Hubris]

You are trying to nitpick.

Bottom line: .3% was previously tested, and that is also included in the patent, if you bothered to do some reading. Also, who gives rat crap what the actual number for the concentration is? They figured it out, and they are moving forward with bim as they plainly stated. They have said all along that if it is noticeably stronger than minox, they will move forward with it and bring it to market. All signs point to them doing just that.

You are quibbling over BS.

As you state, if this product is to be released, it will surely be more powerful than Minoxidil. Want I want to know is, could Bimatoprost and Minoxidil be used together to create a synergistic growth effect? I understand that perhaps no one really knows the answer to this, but I'm open to theory and speculation.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

It seems to me if you got it from the patent you could've said "from the patent", just as easily as, "from the forum". Anyways, the patent doesn't confirm your claims. The fact is you don't know what concentrations they tested, nor what the results were. All we know is that in their latest trial they tested a ten-fold increase over the previous trial that failed to meet expectations. Without knowing what the concentration of the previous trial was we can't know what the concentration of the latest trial was. They may very well have tested 1%, 3%, and 5%, and found 1% to be the optimal dose. I'm not trying to nitpick, but I don't think assumptions should be posted as facts.

You are trying to nitpick.

Bottom line: .3% was previously tested, and that is also included in the patent, if you bothered to do some reading. Also, who gives rat crap what the actual number for the concentration is? They figured it out, and they are moving forward with bim as they plainly stated. They have said all along that if it is noticeably stronger than minox, they will move forward with it and bring it to market. All signs point to them doing just that.

You are quibbling over BS.

[unbalding]

ugh, ITS IN THE PATENT. https://patents.google.com/patent/WO...atoprost&q=aga

"The preferred bimatoprost concentration range is about 2-4% w/w, more preferably about 2.5-3.5% w/w. These preferred bimatoprost concentration ranges allow a surprisingly good balance to be achieved between the wanted pharmacologic effects of the composition and any unwanted side-effects. It had previously been thought that bimatoprost compositions for stimulating growth of hair should have a much lower bimatoprost concentration; this has now surprisingly been found not to be the case."

Dude, I don't have time to answer everyone's questions. I don't repost things found in other forums, I look this stuff up myself with plenty of reliable references. Go through this thread if you want all of your questions answered.

It seems to me if you got it from the patent you could've said "from the patent", just as easily as, "from the forum". Anyways, the patent doesn't confirm your claims. The fact is you don't know what concentrations they tested, nor what the results were. All we know is that in their latest trial they tested a ten-fold increase over the previous trial that failed to meet expectations. Without knowing what the concentration of the previous trial was we can't know what the concentration of the latest trial was. They may very well have tested 1%, 3%, and 5%, and found 1% to be the optimal dose. I'm not trying to nitpick, but I don't think assumptions should be posted as facts.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Here is the study:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01904721?term=bimatoprost+allergan&cond=%22Alopecia%22&rank=2

There is no mention of the dosage. Allergan has never said that they tested a 3% concentration of bimatoprost. I don't doubt that you saw it on a forum somewhere, but that doesn't make it true.

ugh, ITS IN THE PATENT. https://patents.google.com/patent/WO...atoprost&q=aga

"The preferred bimatoprost concentration range is about 2-4% w/w, more preferably about 2.5-3.5% w/w. These preferred bimatoprost concentration ranges allow a surprisingly good balance to be achieved between the wanted pharmacologic effects of the composition and any unwanted side-effects. It had previously been thought that bimatoprost compositions for stimulating growth of hair should have a much lower bimatoprost concentration; this has now surprisingly been found not to be the case."

Dude, I don't have time to answer everyone's questions. I don't repost things found in other forums, I look this stuff up myself with plenty of reliable references. Go through this thread if you want all of your questions answered.

I'm done posting until we get more news about bim.

[unbalding]

please refer to previous posts in this thread.

0.03% is for eyelashes, they initially tested 0.3% for the scalp in phase 2a, that wasn't strong enough so they trialled "a formulation which is 10X stronger," at 3% for phase 2b.

Here is the study:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01904721?term=bimatoprost+allergan&cond=%22Alopecia%22&rank=2

There is no mention of the dosage. Allergan has never said that they tested a 3% concentration of bimatoprost. I don't doubt that you saw it on a forum somewhere, but that doesn't make it true.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

I do not know the reason why people are still pinning hopes on Bimatoprost for hairloss on the bald scalp

From the Cotsarelis patent:

GD2 was detected as 17 pg/mg of tissue in haired scalp and 75.5 pg/mg in bald scalp, representing a 4.4 fold increase in bald tissue. PGF2a also was slightly elevated in bald scalp with 6.7 pg/mg in haired scalp and 15.9 pg/mg in bald scalp.

I choose to follow Dr Cotsareli's findings anytime of the day.

I think you're confused. No one is expecting bim to help with a bald scalp. The point of bim is to reverse thinning, and promote hair growth with existing follicles.

[eldarlmario]

I do not know the reason why people are still pinning hopes on Bimatoprost for hairloss on the bald scalp

From the Cotsarelis patent:

GD2 was detected as 17 pg/mg of tissue in haired scalp and 75.5 pg/mg in bald scalp, representing a 4.4 fold increase in bald tissue. PGF2a also was slightly elevated in bald scalp with 6.7 pg/mg in haired scalp and 15.9 pg/mg in bald scalp.

I choose to follow Dr Cotsareli's findings anytime of the day.

[Hubris]

I used to have terrible tinnitus from being overexposed to loud noises, but after I took myself away from this environment I slowly recovered to the point where I am now 'cured'. This is one of the most annoying conditions on Earth. From my understanding, it is often caused by tiny hair cells inside the ear becoming damaged. These damaged hair cells produce random noises, which your brain is unable to discriminate against and filter out.

Tinnitus happens to be a very common ailment, so I would look to other areas of your life before jumping to the conclusion that Bimatoprost is the cause. I guess it might be possible that Bimatoprost could alter the tiny hair cells in some way, but at this point I'm probably talking broscience as Swooping would refer to it.

[charlie76761]

You got tinnitus from using bim...that's definitely unusual. Are you sure it's not from something else?

Anyway, the drug itself is already FDA approved. Also, if they've received approval or are planning to receive approval, it is at their own discretion to release such information.

It has been my thinking since it was discovered that they are moving forward with it, that the Q3 2015 Key pipeline update has something to do with it. The event itself is taking place from the former Allergan HQ and where it originated, and I believe if they are announcing a product, it will be turned into an event. A reveal for a new, very effective hair loss treatment product would be quite a splash. It would also reinforce the "Allergan" brand, which is the name Actavis adopted. It matters, that name is very important, and even "Rogaine" as a brand is very powerful. When people think hair loss, they think "Rogaine," I think Allergan wants that to change.

When it comes to hair loss (the holy grail of medical aesthetics) , or facial aesthetics, they want people to think Allergan, not another brand. It's a big deal.

i do hope you're right!

Not sure if sure if you are correct re FDA approval already given - BIM has been approved at v low usage for glaucoma and eye lash growth and as per allergan / manufacture instructions, 5ml is supposed to last to for 10 weeks which at 0.03% concentration is a daily dosage of 0.02mg of BIM

People on this forum are talking of the need at much higher for hair growth.. some even saying at 3% which is 30mg a day which is x1,400 more mg per day or 140,000% more. The current approval obviously wont cover dosage at the levels or anything close. Can't imagine more than x1 or x2 would be acceptable

re tinnitus - yes, everything has been constant in my regime. it's obviously a v powerful drug and i'm using at x140 times recommended mg volume

The good old human body.. such a fine equilibrium.. .change one factor here and something often happens there.. (dut, fin, minox to name a few...)

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Interesting - i've been using about 5mg a day (0.5%) for about 2mths and i've had to quit as real bad tinnitus (ear works on hair cells although cant say i can know while BIM would work directly on them!). I'd be v keen to see what they document

i'd be slightly surprised if they would invest such capital prior to completing Phase 3 / getting regulatory approval... but let's hope they know something we dont...!

You got tinnitus from using bim...that's definitely unusual. Are you sure it's not from something else?

Anyway, the drug itself is already FDA approved. Also, if they've received approval or are planning to receive approval, it is at their own discretion to release such information.

It has been my thinking since it was discovered that they are moving forward with it, that the Q3 2015 Key pipeline update has something to do with it. The event itself is taking place from the former Allergan HQ and where it originated, and I believe if they are announcing a product, it will be turned into an event. A reveal for a new, very effective hair loss treatment product would be quite a splash. It would also reinforce the "Allergan" brand, which is the name Actavis adopted. It matters, that name is very important, and even "Rogaine" as a brand is very powerful. When people think hair loss, they think "Rogaine," I think Allergan wants that to change.

When it comes to hair loss (the holy grail of medical aesthetics) , or facial aesthetics, they want people to think Allergan, not another brand. It's a big deal.

[charlie76761]

please refer to previous posts in this thread.

0.03% is for eyelashes, they initially tested 0.3% for the scalp in phase 2a, that wasn't strong enough so they trialled "a formulation which is 10X stronger," at 3% for phase 2b.

Interesting - i've been using about 5mg a day (0.5%) for about 2mths and i've had to quit as real bad tinnitus (ear works on hair cells although cant say i can know while BIM would work directly on them!). I'd be v keen to see what they document

i'd be slightly surprised if they would invest such capital prior to completing Phase 3 / getting regulatory approval... but let's hope they know something we dont...!

[Swooping]

I think they make everything secret. That is interesting because there are a lot of thing is going on the backstage and we do not know about.

Yes baldybald they seem to be pretty secretive indeed. Even their compound is. I'm curious too because this is the first ever direct b-catenin agonist (wnt pathway) ever to hit clinical trials afaik!

Yea you are right, it could be another drug. We'll know in a month. I think what I liked the most is that the article was very specific in mentioning that it was for the packaging of the product, and not new equipment to make a new drug. It leads me to think that it has something to do with a container, or delivery system (i.e. foam can like rogaine) and that they are going to use with a drug that possibly already exists in production at the plant. The article also mentions the VP of Operations saying that they could see the need to hire more people at the plant by Q3 2016, if demand for the products increase. To me, it all but says Bimatoprost for hair loss, but we will find out for sure in a month.

I have been keeping up on SM. It looks like some real interesting stuff for sure. I think their phase 2 dosing is over soon, and I thinks it's very possible that their 2nd phase 2 mini-trial has something to do with the 21st Century Cures Act. Turned out Samumed has some lobbyists in Washington; they must be in the loop about what is going on with the bill.

Hopefully we hear some good news about both soon.

Thanks man, indeed interesting. Letīs hope one of them succeeds. And if not I hope at least that they will release the results.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Where did you get this from? The only trial results I've seen are for .03%. I've seen no mention from them anywhere about what dosage they used in their latest trial. They are supposed to release those study results later this year.

please refer to previous posts in this thread.

0.03% is for eyelashes, they initially tested 0.3% for the scalp in phase 2a, that wasn't strong enough so they trialled "a formulation which is 10X stronger," at 3% for phase 2b.