follicept - what's this?

[follicept]

Sdsurfin what are you talking about seriously? We are not talking about IV injections here. We are talking about delivering the compound in the dermis as a miniaturized hair follicles lies around ~2mm depth and a fully terminal around ~4mm. Besides that not everything that is delivered goes systemic. The pharmacokinetics of the compound are of utmost importance too, for instance the half life and metabolism of the compound.

Furthermore if you refer to "follicular delivery" by keeping the individual particle size under ~80nm then you are wrong too as the whole Topicon technology isn't based on that.

Besides that it doesn't matter anyway as injections are still the best whether it is delivered IV, IM, SUB-Q or in the dermis. The downside of it is that it is invasive. Breakbot is right. Devon knows this, his research team knows this. No way that they can disregard this.

Swooping, frankly, you know not of what you speak. Injections WERE the best. Transdermal is known to be a better delivery mechanism, and get rid of the issue of invasiveness. Hence the industry-wide trend toward microneedles, jet injections, etc. It is the holy grail. The discovery of our transdermal formulation (for other compounds- IGF-1 came later) is what got an internationally acclaimed scientist to leave an endowed chair position at a major university and bring this technology to the world. It is what has major pharma companies knocking on our door, and CEOs of companies answering my emails within minutes. The reason drug delivery experts will claim superiority of injection is because there was no better way. But I guarantee if you ask them if, theoretically, you could get large molecules transdermal instead of injection, they will agree that would be preferable- not just because it is less invasive. What we have is a scientific breakthrough that will change the way drugs are delivered. It just so happens that it also has the added benefits of delivering a compound we hope can give you your hair back; and the ability to come on an anonymous forum and show us how smart you are and how stupid we are. I am equally thankful for the chance at getting vaccine patches to people who are dying in equatorial regions due to lack of access or their medicine spoiling as I am for the opportunity to be told by someone so esteemed as yourself that I am an idiot. -D

[DerekM228]

2-4 weeks after they start, haha. Basically, going to try on myself and a few others as a convenience sample, just before or same time as randomized trials start. If enough of us start to see good growth, and/or the trials are progressing such that we're confident in the product (even if we don't have full, published results) we will probably launch. Yeah, there are others who can make it but don't currently. The indiegogo would help us raise the funds to get them to start manufacturing asap.

Hey Devon -- I'm sure you planned on doing this, but just to instill some more confidence in the group, would you mind posting on the forum when you begin the treatment yourself?

The only reason I mention this is that there have been some timelines given in the past few weeks so I think it'd be great if you could just post/inform us all once you get the shipment and begin the treatment. This would help alleviate a ton of anxiety that I'm sure we all have around Follicept's trial and release.

Apologies to all if you mentioned you would in a previous post.

Thanks,
Derek

[Hairismylife]

Devon your open communication is much appreciated.
I wish you every success in your trial.

[Justinian]

The whole point of their gel is to provide a better alternative to injection... If it did nothing I doubt they would have received much attention for the insulin alternative to injection http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...CLES/140819932

[Illusion]

GL with the trials Devon!

[stayhopeful]

2-4 weeks after they start, haha. Basically, going to try on myself and a few others as a convenience sample, just before or same time as randomized trials start. If enough of us start to see good growth, and/or the trials are progressing such that we're confident in the product (even if we don't have full, published results) we will probably launch. Yeah, there are others who can make it but don't currently. The indiegogo would help us raise the funds to get them to start manufacturing asap.

Thank you again for your activity on the forum, and waking up each day trying to bring this product to an extremely desperate group of sufferers.

I want to ask if anyone could please answer, how in the world would this work in such a way that 2-4 weeks after putting a gel on your head, significant results would occur. how does it happen so fast?

[Keki]

Thank you again for your activity on the forum, and waking up each day trying to bring this product to an extremely desperate group of sufferers.

I want to ask if anyone could please answer, how in the world would this work in such a way that 2-4 weeks after putting a gel on your head, significant results would occur. how does it happen so fast?

that's a really interesting question, normally it require months, i think they will looking for thick vellus everywhere that will go terminal

[stayhopeful]

“There have been few significant advancements in nearly 40 years because industry couldn’t deliver the known ideal compound, IGF-1, safely and locally across the skin. We are excited to announce that with Follicept™, the wait is finally over,” declared Hsu.

Wow, for a scientist to declare "the wait is finally over" is pretty significant language. To be honest, I am surprised the Dr. Hsu was willing to make this statement as well as other lofty assertions on the Follicept website. The only thing I can say is that I will give him the benefit of the doubt, and hope that there is very strong reason to be making such assertions, even without human results.

On another note, I just read that this will be Prometheon's first product release, just before their 2018 target for the insulin patch. IMO they have about as much on the line as possible with this Follicept product. If it is determined to be a scam or sham or not effective, something tells me they will have a lot more difficult time fundraising for their future products. IF however it IS successful, they will probably have an unlimited line of investors for Follicept as well as their future products.

[stayhopeful]

One last comment: all this uncertainty is driving me crazy/anxious. I just read that they discovered Follicept when they noticed rats were growing full coats of hair while testing their other insulin product. i wish it was certainty that the same would happen to humans... i am getting extremely emotional thinking about it... if this actually works better than fin and minox without the sides, I say we not only have a BTT party, but also make statues of Dr. Hsu, and Devon too lol

[FearTheLoss]

The fact that they are making claims like that without actually trialling it on human's is what makes me think it is snake oil, or they are hyping their company for some other reason.. How can you know that "the wait is finally over" without seeing ANY results? I mean, seriously, EVERYTHING grows hair on rats.

[Justinian]

The fact that they are making claims like that without actually trialling it on human's is what makes me think it is snake oil, or they are hyping their company for some other reason.. How can you know that "the wait is finally over" without seeing ANY results? I mean, seriously, EVERYTHING grows hair on rats.

Well he is saying specifically that wait the wait to deliver IGF-1 is over. But combined with saying that IGF-1 is an ideal compound means he is making somewhat of a forward looking statement.

[Swooping]

The whole point of their gel is to provide a better alternative to injection... If it did nothing I doubt they would have received much attention for the insulin alternative to injection http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...CLES/140819932

They provide a more convenient method, not a better method. That's a big difference. It isn't fun to inject yourself daily with insulin. If you have a better delivery method than injections in terms of efficiency though please contact me. I bet Pfizer, Novartis and Roche will be interested in your findings and make you a multi-millionaire.

Besides that Prometheon Pharma failed pretty hard in getting funding for their idea of their technology didn't they? They only got 15k out of 1 million funding, a fail. Normally if you have a really good idea, people are eagerly waiting to fund or invest in you. It doesn't matter what "credentials" you have. You don't generally need to approach people, people will approach you. Big talk doesn't do much, does it?

Many scientists/companies/people have used tricks to great extent. A primary example is Keratene Retard which supposedly suppressed DHT without any side effects through a unique mechanism. The study done on this compound was in cooperation with the University of Brussels. However when I called the investigator principal of this study they were quiet. And guess what, it's a scam compound. As confirmed by several people who have used the substance and did blood tests. No DHT was suppressed at all. So it's a study done with heavy bias.

Now Devon says that he will test it out on himself and some close people to him. That's even more subjective. It will probably be in the sense of like; "yes it works". He says he will launch it to market even before the primary trial has taken place. Then why do you do trials at all Devon? Just release it immediately, I don't see the point? Or am I missing something?

Nonetheless to even think that IGF-1 has any chance of working that well for AGA is naive in my book. It would be literally a disgrace to the world if it does. IGF-1 has been around for ages. The studies related to hair follicle biology & IGF-1 have been out for ages too. You guys really think that other people whether it be scientists/doctors/companies/people didn't try it out already? Get real please. There is no better method of injecting, so that argument holds no ground too.

If I only look at the website of follicept it's projected it as it will outperform minoxidil and be the next great thing. What a joke. Well I suppose some people hopefully do get the point.

[Kiwi]

The fact that they are making claims like that without actually trialling it on human's is what makes me think it is snake oil, or they are hyping their company for some other reason.. How can you know that "the wait is finally over" without seeing ANY results? I mean, seriously, EVERYTHING grows hair on rats.

lol agreed, this may be totally ineffective on humans. Much more interested in the new drugs sdsurfin is working on

[dus]

They provide a more convenient method, not a better method. That's a big difference. It isn't fun to inject yourself daily with insulin. If you have a better delivery method than injections in terms of efficiency though please contact me. I bet Pfizer, Novartis and Roche will be interested in your findings and make you a multi-millionaire.

Besides that Prometheon Pharma failed pretty hard in getting funding for their idea of their technology didn't they? They only got 15k out of 1 million funding, a fail. Normally if you have a really good idea, people are eagerly waiting to fund or invest in you. It doesn't matter what "credentials" you have. You don't generally need to approach people, people will approach you. Big talk doesn't do much, does it?

Many scientists/companies/people have used tricks to great extent. A primary example is Keratene Retard which supposedly suppressed DHT without any side effects through a unique mechanism. The study done on this compound was in cooperation with the University of Brussels. However when I called the investigator principal of this study they were quiet. And guess what, it's a scam compound. As confirmed by several people who have used the substance and did blood tests. No DHT was suppressed at all. So it's a study done with heavy bias.

Now Devon says that he will test it out on himself and some close people to him. That's even more subjective. It will probably be in the sense of like; "yes it works". He says he will launch it to market even before the primary trial has taken place. Then why do you do trials at all Devon? Just release it immediately, I don't see the point? Or am I missing something?

Nonetheless to even think that IGF-1 has any chance of working that well for AGA is naive in my book. It would be literally a disgrace to the world if it does. IGF-1 has been around for ages. The studies related to hair follicle biology & IGF-1 have been out for ages too. You guys really think that other people whether it be scientists/doctors/companies/people didn't try it out already? Get real please. There is no better method of injecting, so that argument holds no ground too.

If I only look at the website of follicept it's projected it as it will outperform minoxidil and be the next great thing. What a joke. Well I suppose some people hopefully do get the point.

Though I agree with most of your points... Daily/ weekly/ monthly injections aren't really practical. So the vehicle does make a difference.

[stayhopeful]

I found this quote on another forum. Basically I interpret it to be saying that this guys tried legit igf-1 and it made his hat 'grow like crazy'

"Secondly in agreement with what Mr.Mister posted, every time I cycled real IGF(transport medium by injectioin ONLY-lypholized powder reconstituted before use then immediately frozen until ready to use-thaw and immediate inject) It made my hair come out like crazy!!!! 4 different cycles of it yeilded the same results for hair with with the other desired attributes losing effect because of antigen buildup."

Maybe there is something here


And I agree, getting injections regularly versus an at home topical is incomparable in terms of practicality and convenience