follicept - what's this?

[dus]

but how do you account for the fact this is a company that WANTS badly primarily to release another product for diabetes in the future.... if that was indeed their goal, wouldn't it be inherently illogical to 'scam' a sizable population. There brand and name will be tarnished all over the web..... doesn't make sense

The fact that they can't get funding under these market conditions is highly suspicious. My advice would be to not get your hopes up.

[breakbot]

How it's a scam if they are not selling nothing before results rotfl , if this is a classic scam your is a classic trolling, so you think somone will post name/surname a face, risk their career, their company, associete their name with a public scam on one of the most read hairloss forum in the world just for 10-15k of profit with the early 2-3k batch? LOL

You are so passionate for this follicept. And you joined the community this month.
How strange??
I bet you will be from the sutisfied testers.

[Keki]

I wish i could be a tester, i'm from EU if you had the common sense to read the thread but you are busy spreading bullshit

[stayhopeful]

to be fair there are several users that have commented on this thread that joined this month and that are calling Follicept a scam

[follicept]

Wow that's so awesome. You know what? I saw a unicorn yesterday!

Don't forget this;



Dr. Hsu: Hey Devon you know the topicon technology we made?
Devon: Yes offc, what about it!?
Dr. Hsu: Yeah so we tested something on mice and they grow an awesome fur coat. We think it's IGF-1! Let's use our technology for the IGF-1 delivery so people can have awesome hair. After all mice testing does translate to humans! The evidence is there, rogaine stands no chance!
Devon: Awesome, and we could use the money to fund our initial failed project?
Dr. Hsu: YES!
Devon: GENIUS!


Man I'll leave it at this. Just be cautious people .

This is certainly not how it went. More like: in doing rigorous studies on rats in insulin, they they grew full coats of hair. We thought there was something wrong with the breeding colony, as they were genetically not supposed to grow hair. After 2 months of discussions with the breeders, Dr. Hsu had a thought- I wonder if the excess insulin is binding to IGF-1 receptors. Let's do a month of research on the literature. Hmm, some basis for that. Ok let's set up a rigorous study. Wow it worked. Let's cut the dose. Again, again, again. Holy crap, we are still seeing effect with 1ppm. I wonder if we could take this to market safely. Months more research. Looks like we should be fine. Let's do a press release to get in front of cosmetic/pharma companies to potentially partner, etc. Then BTT goes nuts and my email gets flooded, so here we are. And insulin isn't failed- indiegogo failed, but the insulin product is still on track. We just tried an experiment to see if we could have the patients who would benefit fund the development. That certainly failed.

[follicept]

Yup, I mean, there is bubble in biotech stocks, investors looking for yield everywhere and they can't get normal funding?

We are not publicly traded and don't want to exit in 3-5 years so we aren't a fit for VC money. We want to stay private so we can pursue projects that may not generate much profit, but ease suffering among disadvantaged/ignored populations. Shareholders on the public market wouldn't like that.

[follicept]

It just works perfectly for them..

They come on here early, claim they have a breakthrough vehicle and they don't have to go through FDA testing...make friends with all you guys and get you to trust them by saying they won't take money until they "know" it works, they come up with a product name and hype it all up..now, they will post good results and release a "special batch" to a "limited" group of people in the fall...

come on people, I know we're all suffering, but this is a scam.

Note, we didn't come on here. We responded to a lot of questions and speculation. I was alerted that we were being talked about by sdsurfin, who has been awesome in challenging and informing us.

[follicept]

How it's a scam if they are not selling nothing before results rotfl , if this is a classic scam your is a classic trolling, so you think somone will post name/surname a face, risk their career, their company, associete their name with a public scam on one of the most read hairloss forum in the world just for 10-15k of profit with the early 2-3k batch? LOL

well said.

[follicept]

but how do you account for the fact this is a company that WANTS badly primarily to release another product for diabetes in the future.... if that was indeed their goal, wouldn't it be inherently illogical to 'scam' a sizable population. There brand and name will be tarnished all over the web..... doesn't make sense

First, you just contradicted yourself. But it's not quite like that. It's more like this application fell into our lap, and we realized that the market actually might be bigger than insulin, and could potentially fund any and all product development we need to help other suffering populations, too. This is a product with lower barriers to entry, so we are excited, and the main message is that we can use profits to help other populations and achieve our mission of improving global health.

[breakbot]

I wish i could be a tester, i'm from EU if you had the common sense to read the thread but you are busy spreading bullshit

I'm sorry man and to be honest i just show the photos of follicept and i was impressed.
This technology will save as all. Sorry for my ignorance.
I'm finally out of here. You just want to read what you prefer to read to give you hope.
Aga is not so simple just solved by a fantastic delivery technology.
This company should wait until their human trials. They claim that their product will be better than minoxidil but they haven't tested it yet!!! If someone is not mentally ill would found this strange.

[noisette]

Wow that's so awesome. You know what? I saw a unicorn yesterday!

Don't forget this;



Dr. Hsu: Hey Devon you know the topicon technology we made?
Devon: Yes offc, what about it!?
Dr. Hsu: Yeah so we tested something on mice and they grow an awesome fur coat. We think it's IGF-1! Let's use our technology for the IGF-1 delivery so people can have awesome hair. After all mice testing does translate to humans! The evidence is there, rogaine stands no chance!
Devon: Awesome, and we could use the money to fund our initial failed project?
Dr. Hsu: YES!
Devon: GENIUS!


Man I'll leave it at this. Just be cautious people .

Swooping, why do you descredit the work of doctor Hsu and Devon ? your posts are unfounded and pretty much immature. We have a chance to have a look on a great work and you break it with your stupidity.

[sdsurfin]

They provide a more convenient method, not a better method. That's a big difference. It isn't fun to inject yourself daily with insulin. If you have a better delivery method than injections in terms of efficiency though please contact me. I bet Pfizer, Novartis and Roche will be interested in your findings and make you a multi-millionaire.

Besides that Prometheon Pharma failed pretty hard in getting funding for their idea of their technology didn't they? They only got 15k out of 1 million funding, a fail. Normally if you have a really good idea, people are eagerly waiting to fund or invest in you. It doesn't matter what "credentials" you have. You don't generally need to approach people, people will approach you. Big talk doesn't do much, does it?

Many scientists/companies/people have used tricks to great extent. A primary example is Keratene Retard which supposedly suppressed DHT without any side effects through a unique mechanism. The study done on this compound was in cooperation with the University of Brussels. However when I called the investigator principal of this study they were quiet. And guess what, it's a scam compound. As confirmed by several people who have used the substance and did blood tests. No DHT was suppressed at all. So it's a study done with heavy bias.

Now Devon says that he will test it out on himself and some close people to him. That's even more subjective. It will probably be in the sense of like; "yes it works". He says he will launch it to market even before the primary trial has taken place. Then why do you do trials at all Devon? Just release it immediately, I don't see the point? Or am I missing something?

Nonetheless to even think that IGF-1 has any chance of working that well for AGA is naive in my book. It would be literally a disgrace to the world if it does. IGF-1 has been around for ages. The studies related to hair follicle biology & IGF-1 have been out for ages too. You guys really think that other people whether it be scientists/doctors/companies/people didn't try it out already? Get real please. There is no better method of injecting, so that argument holds no ground too.

If I only look at the website of follicept it's projected it as it will outperform minoxidil and be the next great thing. What a joke. Well I suppose some people hopefully do get the point.

For the love of god can you just stop posting when you don't even understand anything that you read. All you do is pollute with misinformation. Or keep posting, whatever, but anyone reading swooping's posts just realize that they are not scientifically correct, nor do they take into account everything that follicept is basing this on. I cannot elucidate more on this, but they have a lot of reason to think this will work. some key points:

1) Injections are absolutely not the most efficient way to get something into a follicle. They are effective at getting stuff into larger blood vessels, which is not where you want the IGF-1. IGF-1 in high doses in the blood is not what we need, nor would you want to inject your head all the time. That being said, PRP and histogen do use IGF-1 among other growth factors via injection with positive results. You can look at this as basically a topical version of PRP or histogen, but using the most simple solution with the most important growth factor. The member who said this might be a topical PRP is I think pretty spot on, except PRP does not take into account exactly when the follicle needs IGF-1, nor does it deliver it in the same way. Plus its too expensive to keep doing routinely. Prometheon pharma is entirely built on a novel delivery system, and I have seen figures that show how different and effective it is for the use of many different things. Also despite what swooping might suggest, nobody has EVER systematically tested the use of IGF-1 for hair in a controlled trial. It has been too dangerous and illegal and pointless for scientists to inject the necessary amounts of IGF-1 to reach the follicle via injection as a clinical trial. The only trial that comes close is the japanese one that Devon has posted, which stimulated the sensory neuron and had positive results. The various creams and whatever that use IGF-1 have never been studied, and probably do not reach the follicle in the correct manner or in the right pattern of use, or even with the right IGF. The only reports we have of injecting IGF-1 are from anecdotal bodybuilding forums, and those reports really don't say anything that would lead us to believe that it won't work. On the contrary, the ones that I found either correlated it to hair growth in non-balding people, or with an induction in hair cycling like an initial rogaine shed. Also- see below.

2) IGF-1 basically makes anagen happen (growth phase of hair). So if a bodybuilder kept giving himself IGF-1 it makes perfect sense that his hair would keep falling out. It would be like constantly rebooting the shedding phase of minox. The key to IGF-1 treatment may be timing. Follicept has stated this several times on this forum yet people still don't know how to read or comprehend basic ideas.

3) Those of you who think this is a scam really should just give up on life or go join a conspiracy theory website. I can't make you understand if you don't have the capacity to separate normal business practices and focused research from snake oil salesmen. Harvard professors do not go around scamming people for a few thousand bucks, there is nothing to gain from that. The diabetes treatments will need much more money in funding than the few bucks you could get from an early release of a balding fix. Follicept will be impacted negatively to some degree if this fails, and I have now communicated personally with their research team and there is absolutely no intention of scamming anyone. They have an idea with real potential, and recognize that it might or might not work. They aren't asking for anyone's money until it is marketed, but are being pretty smart and also open by offering an early release if they see positive results. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that their testing will be fabricated, and if it was it would become pretty obvious pretty fast. It's not so easy to fabricate real results, and they wouldn't risk opening this up for examination to an online forum that is hypercritical and hyperaware of these things. If you want to play the conspiracy theorist and don't believe them, then don't buy it, easy as that. They have been very honest about the fact that they want to make it a marketable product and that they want to use it to help fund their original research. nothing wrong with that.

4) Yes, its easy to grow hair on mice. However, the rat alopecia model that they used is one that has been very effective at showing the benefits of minoxidil. it is a rat that is engineered NOT to grow hair and to mimic a balding person. Of course, nothing is perfect unless it is an actual balding human, but they studied this rat model very much in detail, and the IGF-1 discovery was very much like the rogaine discovery. Again, I can't expound on this, but it is more complicated than just "oh look, it grew hair." Observations were made at a much more detailed and considered level. I am extremely aware of how complicated balding is, how many pathways are involved, etc. And I am extremely skeptical that anything will be a great side effect free treatment. Also, unlike people like swooping , I don't claim ANYTHING with certainty. It makes me laugh that he can say anything is for sure not going to or going to work. The guy ultimately doesn't know jack for sure, none of us do. and on top of that his research analysis and supposed understanding of science is not correct and totally misleading. knowing what I do about follicept, I think it has immense promise. This educated speculation is entirely based on what I know about the science and about the role of IGF-1 in other treatments and in the hair cycle. Always a chance that things won't work at all, which Devon has clearly stated as well. I don't have much invested in this at all, at my age my hair isn't in terrible shape and is not that big a deal, but would be cool if this worked, especially for the younger guys. stay positive.

[Keki]

I'm sorry man and to be honest i just show the photos of follicept and i was impressed.
This technology will save as all. Sorry for my ignorance.
I'm finally out of here. You just want to read what you prefer to read to give you hope.
Aga is not so simple just solved by a fantastic delivery technology.
This company should wait until their human trials. They claim that their product will be better than minoxidil but they haven't tested it yet!!! If someone is not mentally ill would found this strange.

Do you understand i'm in the skeptical side and i'm ****ig waiting for pics and results? The difference is that i trust devon in his integrity, i think their team are not a bunch of idiots like you want to mark them, and i will 100% support them till the official trials end, and even if they fail giving us a working product, i will continue to support them beacause they did every they could to answers our question and giving us daily news, as long they will not sell a snake oil on purpuse you have no right to call them a sketchy and scam seller company, but continue to teach them how injection works please, i'm sure they don't teach them at harvard

[stayhopeful]

For the love of god can you just stop posting when you don't even understand anything that you read. All you do is pollute with misinformation. Or keep posting, whatever, but anyone reading swooping's posts just realize that they are not scientifically correct, nor do they take into account everything that follicept is basing this on. I cannot elucidate more on this, but they have a lot of reason to think this will work. some key points:

1) Injections are absolutely not the most efficient way to get something into a follicle. They are effective at getting stuff into larger blood vessels, which is not where you want the IGF-1. IGF-1 in high doses in the blood is not what we need, nor would you want to inject your head all the time. That being said, PRP and histogen do use IGF-1 among other growth factors via injection with positive results. You can look at this as basically a topical version of PRP or histogen, but using the most simple solution with the most important growth factor. The member who said this might be a topical PRP is I think pretty spot on, except PRP does not take into account exactly when the follicle needs IGF-1, nor does it deliver it in the same way. Plus its too expensive to keep doing routinely. Prometheon pharma is entirely built on a novel delivery system, and I have seen figures that show how different and effective it is for the use of many different things. Also despite what swooping might suggest, nobody has EVER systematically tested the use of IGF-1 for hair in a controlled trial. It has been too dangerous and illegal and pointless for scientists to inject the necessary amounts of IGF-1 to reach the follicle via injection as a clinical trial. The only trial that comes close is the japanese one that Devon has posted, which stimulated the sensory neuron and had positive results. The various creams and whatever that use IGF-1 have never been studied, and probably do not reach the follicle in the correct manner or in the right pattern of use, or even with the right IGF. The only reports we have of injecting IGF-1 are from anecdotal bodybuilding forums, and those reports really don't say anything that would lead us to believe that it won't work. On the contrary, the ones that I found either correlated it to hair growth in non-balding people, or with an induction in hair cycling like an initial rogaine shed. Also- see below.

2) IGF-1 basically makes anagen happen (growth phase of hair). So if a bodybuilder kept giving himself IGF-1 it makes perfect sense that his hair would keep falling out. It would be like constantly rebooting the shedding phase of minox. The key to IGF-1 treatment may be timing. Follicept has stated this several times on this forum yet people still don't know how to read or comprehend basic ideas.

3) Those of you who think this is a scam really should just give up on life or go join a conspiracy theory website. I can't make you understand if you don't have the capacity to separate normal business practices and focused research from snake oil salesmen. Harvard professors do not go around scamming people for a few thousand bucks, there is nothing to gain from that. The diabetes treatments will need much more money in funding than the few bucks you could get from an early release of a balding fix. Follicept will be impacted negatively to some degree if this fails, and I have now communicated personally with their research team and there is absolutely no intention of scamming anyone. They have an idea with real potential, and recognize that it might or might not work. They aren't asking for anyone's money until it is marketed, but are being pretty smart and also open by offering an early release if they see positive results. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that their testing will be fabricated, and if it was it would become pretty obvious pretty fast. It's not so easy to fabricate real results, and they wouldn't risk opening this up for examination to an online forum that is hypercritical and hyperaware of these things. If you want to play the conspiracy theorist and don't believe them, then don't buy it, easy as that. They have been very honest about the fact that they want to make it a marketable product and that they want to use it to help fund their original research. nothing wrong with that.

4) Yes, its easy to grow hair on mice. However, the rat alopecia model that they used is one that has been very effective at showing the benefits of minoxidil. it is a rat that is engineered NOT to grow hair and to mimic a balding person. Of course, nothing is perfect unless it is an actual balding human, but they studied this rat model very much in detail, and the IGF-1 discovery was very much like the rogaine discovery. Again, I can't expound on this, but it is more complicated than just "oh look, it grew hair." Observations were made at a much more detailed and considered level. I am extremely aware of how complicated balding is, how many pathways are involved, etc. And I am extremely skeptical that anything will be a great side effect free treatment. Also, unlike people like swooping , I don't claim ANYTHING with certainty. It makes me laugh that he can say anything is for sure not going to or going to work. The guy ultimately doesn't know jack for sure, none of us do. and on top of that his research analysis and supposed understanding of science is not correct and totally misleading. knowing what I do about follicept, I think it has immense promise. This educated speculation is entirely based on what I know about the science and about the role of IGF-1 in other treatments and in the hair cycle. Always a chance that things won't work at all, which Devon has clearly stated as well. I don't have much invested in this at all, at my age my hair isn't in terrible shape and is not that big a deal, but would be cool if this worked, especially for the younger guys. stay positive.

This is an OG post SD gooood sheeet... Swooping just got schooled like a child lol...damn i am so excited... I am young so I appreciate you so much understanding how much it would mean to us.....and also to EVERYONE. The fact that these mice were engineered to mimic balding people, along with the other scientific studies, gives me a lot of hope

[sdsurfin]

Do you understand i'm in the skeptical side and i'm ****ig waiting for pics and results? The difference is that i trust devon in his integrity, i think their team are not a bunch of idiots like you want to mark them, and i will 100% support them till the official trials end, and even if they fail giving us a working product, i will continue to support them beacause they did every they could to answers our question and giving us daily news, as long they will not sell a snake oil on purpuse you have no right to call them a sketchy and scam seller company, but continue to teach them how injection works please, i'm sure they don't teach them at harvard

+1

love how children on here think they know more about how science works than dermatologists and doctors that have been in the field their whole lives. Nothing is ever proven to work until it works, but it is absolutely ridiculous to think that a doctor is wasting his time on a theory when you yourself have seriously limited knowledge compared to them. People don't do things for shits and giggles. Cotsarellis is not researching PGD2 and partnering with pharma companies to develop these ideas because of some conspiracy. A top doctor at a leading research institution is not going to promote a scam balding product. They see potential and they act on it, which is exactly what we all want. Efforts towards innovation. If you don't support that then go join the republican party and die in a fire.