follicept - what's this?

[follicept]

devon, wouldnt it be possible to just lower the concentration of minox or fin (by let's say factor 100 or 1000) to have the same positive effect because of your new vehicle? couldn't you bypass the FDA then as the dose is negligible low? maybe the low dose could be defined as cosmetic only, like the IGF-1 thing.

i mean, if the IGF-1 trials show only low success, you would still have the possibility to mix it with other stuff (of which we know they are beneficial to hair), e.g. copper, zinc, minox, fin, even new molecules like CB and RU. with your vehicle you could create such a powerful weapon!!!

i still hope that this mentioned step is not required because IGF1 should do the trick alone, but if it turns out that results are not like expected, your new vehicle could still be a gamechanger!

Hopefully IGF-1 is enough. Min and fin are definitely drugs and would require 3-5 years FDA trials at best. We wish it were that simple!

[follicept]

Devon, thank you again for your commitment to helping to alleviate all the suffering all of us are going through. So you are waiting for the first batch of the IGF-1 right now? Can you please let us know when you start using it yourself! Any day now sounds very, very exciting

Correct. Of course, I will definitely announce when I begin using it. It's taking longer than anticipated, of course, but we could still release at least an early batch by fall.

[follicept]

I want to expand on what I said a little. There is more to follicept's potential success than if they can deliver igf-1 effectively.

1. DHT lowers igf-1 in the dermal papilla, along with other things. So, even if they deliver igf-1 effectively, follicpet may not work because we need other things like vegf, etc.-- but we don't know until follicept's results. I haven't found any studies that test exactly what they're testing.

2. Or, maybe it delivers igf-1 effectively, but DHT degrades it again too fast for it to grow hair. In that case, you may need fin + igf-1.

3. Or, maybe it doesn't deliver igf-1 as effectively as thought (with humans)

4. Or maybe some combination of the above.


Of course they could hit other hitches too. I'm not a scientist or researcher, so take what I'm saying with a large grain of salt. This is just my opinion from what I've seen. My main point is that this is at least worth keeping an eye on (and being polite to the company). If in 3 months they haven't released any findings than you can worry.

Definitely valid questions. We are in uncharted territory here, and AGA is not well understood. We have a solid theoretical basis, and a promising technology to address it. Now it's time to test it. Even if we fail, perhaps we contribute in some way to understanding of AGA, and get us all one step closer. Time will tell!

[follicept]

Devon, thank you again for your transparency and interaction with the community. It is really really strange, but very cool. Keep it up

I think I recall you saying you don't expect there to be incremental effects - either it works, or it doesn't. So, it wouldn't make sense for me to slather my head in Follicept as much as possible?

Also, do you foresee Follicept as a treatment for fine hair? I've had fine blonde hair since I was born, which definitely doesn't help since it's thinning now. At one point in high school I was able to use hair products, but for the last 5 years or so, hair products just make my hair look thinner and worse. The plan is for the product to thicken existing hair, right? I'd love to be able to style my mane again

Thanks, my pleasure! That's what we expect. We will see. It would not make sense. I am sure people will be tempted to use more than we recommend, but we are starting to evaluate more, and perhaps it is precisely taking the break from treatment that allows the cells to do their thing. In other words, if we say it's best to use every other or third month, using it every month might actually work against you. I really am not sure about the thin hair thing, but hope we'll know soon!

[follicept]

That's awesome! This makes me think more highly of Follicept. Of course, as others have mentioned, other products exist that include IGF-1, and they don't work. So I really hope Follicept has some novel vehicle.

Question for Devon: Why don't you guys get the same type of lab mice that you tested Follicept on initially and try to use one of the other hair loss products that have IGF-1 on them. If the mice grow hair again, then we have some reason to believe that mice work in some significantly different way from humans when it comes to the interaction of IGF-1 and hair. This procedure might be faster to complete because you might have some of those mice lying around, and it doesn't take much time or money to get other products with IGF-1.

Not a bad idea. We tested Follicept vs Rogaine and saw pretty good results. Do you mean other products that haven't worked? Some of the bogus ones or whatever, and see how they compare?

[follicept]

Nice find. Especially for fin users. Would be interested to hear Devon/Follicept's thoughts on this.

Seems to confirm/support what we have been saying. We aim to deliver IGF-1 to the DP directly and efficiently and upregulate IGF-1, as well as create positive feedback loop for nearby receptors. Sounds promising! Our science team may have already seen this one, not sure, but I passed it along to them.

[Keki]

If it works at his 100% of potential we will grow hairs like a beard and trash fina and minox, but honestly it can't be so simple, i hope it's the same as minox but with better management

[follicept]

I'm still hopeful that the reason they're so confident is because some sneaky person tried it already and knows it worked. If you were in the lab when a potential cure was synthesized, would you not be tempted to try it on yourself? And if it only takes 12 days to see results...

I won't hold my breath, scientific integrity and all, but I still have high hopes for this project. I wonder what the status is on the IGF-1 shipment. And I'm jealous as hell that Devon gets to try it on himself...here's hoping he comes back sporting a crazy thick pompadour.

I wish that were the reason!! Haha. Hope to see soon. Will definitely let you all know when I start and then update with results. Of course, there is also the risk I go totally bald. Who knows haha. Doubt it, obviously, but never know.

As far as the shipment: basically, there is one company that makes it, and it's for another indication. I have been in discussion but they are slow. I want to give them a little more time, and I kind of hinted that I get hundreds of emails per day, and would hate to have to point them to him for answers. That's my nuclear option, is turning you guys loose on them. But not ready for that yet. Pharma just moves very very slowly. We could still have a batch by summer or fall, assuming they get it to us soon. One sample/shipment can make enough for a month's worth for about 3k people, basically our private batch. So though we are delayed, we are far from derailed.

[follicept]

He's not wrong. If it does what they say it will, I'm sure this place will explode. Hell, the whole Internet might.

Minus a couple of characters who post here, anyway.

Here's to hoping!

[DerekM228]

Devon -- the feedback and answers you continue to give have had me drilling the 'refresh' button in my browser for the past 3 weeks. The excitement is through the roof (I know, I know, here comes the user who says "ugh, relax, wait for human trials!!").

Keep up the good work, and like the rest of us, I hope the supplier comes through!

Derek

[Keki]

Hey devon, i was looking at another article regardin topical finasteride ( i don't know if i can link it's from another sites/forum), they use a pharmacy to deliver the product in europe, this one and if you look at their service they indeed use igf-1 as ingredient, what about use them somehow as supply so you can speed up follicept and we european have easy time to order from that

[Jagger]

I wish that were the reason!! Haha. Hope to see soon. Will definitely let you all know when I start and then update with results. Of course, there is also the risk I go totally bald. Who knows haha. Doubt it, obviously, but never know.

As far as the shipment: basically, there is one company that makes it, and it's for another indication. I have been in discussion but they are slow. I want to give them a little more time, and I kind of hinted that I get hundreds of emails per day, and would hate to have to point them to him for answers. That's my nuclear option, is turning you guys loose on them. But not ready for that yet. Pharma just moves very very slowly. We could still have a batch by summer or fall, assuming they get it to us soon. One sample/shipment can make enough for a month's worth for about 3k people, basically our private batch. So though we are delayed, we are far from derailed.

I will email the living **** out of them.

How are y'all planning on doing the private batch? Random selection from people who signed up? First 3,000?

[PoppinSmoke]

Hello Devon. First I wanted to thank you for coming here and being so forthcoming with the information you've provided. It's not very often that researchers visit the forum and are so honest and gracious with us. We greatly appreciate it, and its awesome having you here.
Now I wanted to bring to your attention another ingredient that might come in useful if the whole IGF angle doesnt work out as planned. A substance called Baicalin. It is a a flavonoid isolated from Scutellaria baicalensis. Myself and a couple other members of the forum have been very interested in this for awhile now but were unsure how to prepare a topical for it. I was thinking your technology might be perfect for it. There are numerous studies on it and I just wanted to bring it to you and your teams attention.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25434532

baicalin, a flavonoid, affects the activity of human dermal papilla cells and promotes anagen induction in mice

Abstract
Baicalin, a flavonoid isolated from Scutellaria baicalensis, is known to have multiple biological functions. Recent studies have demonstrated that baicalin treatment increases alkaline phosphatase activity (ALP) and osteoprotegerin secretion by osteoblasts. Furthermore, baicalin induces the differentiation of cultured osteoblasts via the activation of the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway. In this study, we evaluated the hair growth-promoting effects of baicalin in human follicular dermal papilla (DP) cells. A reporter assay and Western blotting were used to assess the effect of baicalin on β-catenin signaling in DP cells. ALP activity and messenger RNA (mRNA) expression were examined by ALP staining and real-time polymerase chain reaction (PCR), respectively. Growth factor expression levels were also evaluated using real-time PCR. Finally, the effect of baicalin on hair growth in vivo was examined by topical application of baicalin on the shaved dorsal skin of C57BL/6 mice. Our results indicate that baicalin activates Wnt/β-catenin signaling in a dose-dependent manner in human DP cells. ALP mRNA expression and activity were significantly induced in the presence of baicalin. In addition, treatment with baicalin induced the mRNA expression of growth factors, such as insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) and vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF). Moreover, compared to vehicle treatment, baicalin treatment induced an earlier conversion from telogen to anagen. Our results strongly suggest that baicalin promotes hair growth by regulating the activity of DP cells.

credit to Swooping for the link

[hopeeman]

lets say that will work.
when it will be on our hands?

[follicept]

lets say that will work.
when it will be on our hands?

Jagger, I know you will! Haha. And the private batch will likely have to be US only first, but not positive on that. Probably first 3k. Not sure yet.

Hopeeman- Still shooting for fall in the US. Looking into regulations and logistics for other countries, but trust me, if for no other reason than the money, we want it to be ASAP. We have great incentive to get it to you as fast as humanly possible.