follicept - what's this?

[Keki]

Then leave the thread and wait the trials, we are lucky to have somone who answer every questions, this never ever happend before

[noisette]

Then leave the thread and wait the trials, we are lucky to have somone who answer every questions, this never ever happend before

Of course, Doctor Aaron Gardner answered some questions about his work if you remember ^^

[FooFighter]

And he blow away suddenly and we never heard anything new from them till then, so in other words mean- hair loss is actually very hard to be cured.

[joachim]

Thanks for that! I know it will. If you'd prefer, we can drop IGF-1 and go after finasteride. We'll just need to ask you guys for about $50M and we promise we'll have that product first thing in 2020.

IGF-1 has a history in studies, but the implementation has been the issue. We have a new delivery system, and a chance to get it out there quickly. We're gonna take it.

devon, wouldnt it be possible to just lower the concentration of minox or fin (by let's say factor 100 or 1000) to have the same positive effect because of your new vehicle? couldn't you bypass the FDA then as the dose is negligible low? maybe the low dose could be defined as cosmetic only, like the IGF-1 thing.

i mean, if the IGF-1 trials show only low success, you would still have the possibility to mix it with other stuff (of which we know they are beneficial to hair), e.g. copper, zinc, minox, fin, even new molecules like CB and RU. with your vehicle you could create such a powerful weapon!!!

i still hope that this mentioned step is not required because IGF1 should do the trick alone, but if it turns out that results are not like expected, your new vehicle could still be a gamechanger!

[Jonathan]

devon, wouldnt it be possible to just lower the concentration of minox or fin (by let's say factor 100 or 1000) to have the same positive effect because of your new vehicle? couldn't you bypass the FDA then as the dose is negligible low? maybe the low dose could be defined as cosmetic only, like the IGF-1 thing.

i mean, if the IGF-1 trials show only low success, you would still have the possibility to mix it with other stuff (of which we know they are beneficial to hair), e.g. copper, zinc, minox, fin, even new molecules like CB and RU. with your vehicle you could create such a powerful weapon!!!

i still hope that this mentioned step is not required because IGF1 should do the trick alone, but if it turns out that results are not like expected, your new vehicle could still be a gamechanger!

I am with you here. I like to have a plan B and C, and think this vehicle can do amazing stuff with substances already on the market.
...but lets hope that IGF-1 will be sufficient and does it stuff so that we all can live happily ever after.

[Sogeking]

Yes we are here discussing this for 100 of pages already. But that is the point of this forum. Devon said they will trial this and show us the results so lets wait for the results.
Sure the vehicle in question Devon is speaking of could be used with finasteride, minox maybe even CB, but in order to trial it with that we would have to wait another 4-5 years if not more...
As for the naysayers claiming this is all useless. Well look at this way. What do I have to lose? I won't buy this until I see legitimate good results, so my money is ok. I will still lose hair while I am waiting for this. So worst case scenario I get my hopes sqashed and that is nothing new. I got my hopes smashed by women, friends, government and the world multiple times, this is childs play compared to that.

[NeedHairASAP]

devon, wouldnt it be possible to just lower the concentration of minox or fin (by let's say factor 100 or 1000) to have the same positive effect because of your new vehicle? couldn't you bypass the FDA then as the dose is negligible low? maybe the low dose could be defined as cosmetic only, like the IGF-1 thing.

i mean, if the IGF-1 trials show only low success, you would still have the possibility to mix it with other stuff (of which we know they are beneficial to hair), e.g. copper, zinc, minox, fin, even new molecules like CB and RU. with your vehicle you could create such a powerful weapon!!!

i still hope that this mentioned step is not required because IGF1 should do the trick alone, but if it turns out that results are not like expected, your new vehicle could still be a gamechanger!

Minox works by increasing igf-1


If they can deliver igf-1, there is no need to use minox.

[liba]

Devon,
Thank you for the comment on my English, that's really kind of you
And as always, keep us updated on the new events of the trial!

[liba]

I am with you here. I like to have a plan B and C, and think this vehicle can do amazing stuff with substances already on the market.
...but lets hope that IGF-1 will be sufficient and does it stuff so that we all can live happily ever after.

The main problem for fin and dut is the system absorption, honestly I think if Prometheon Pharma's delivery method is genuine and capable of letting proteins like igf-1(which are huge in terms of molecular weight) penetrate the skin, it probably will make tiny molecules like fin dut etc flood into your bloodstream directly, and that would make the topical thing pointless. Anyway it's just my guess though.
What I've thought about is using this new delivery method to make topicals with other growth factors which are also giant proteins, not limited to just igf-1(the sole purpose of their method is to replace the annoying injections when delivering proteins, from what I understand). But with the new growth factors putting into the formula, chances are that the FDA shit will stand up and block the way halt the whole thing for years just like they did to histogen and so.

[Television]

All I really want is to get off fin. I've been taking it for about a year and a half now and I think it may have slowed my loss down but I feel like it is wearing me down at the same time. If Follicept can live up to what it states then I will support it wholeheartedly, especially if there are no adverse side effects.

Could be pie in the sky but I am hopeful. My hair is not too bad yet so I want to do all that I can to maintain it and possibly gain back some of what I have already lost.

[stayhopeful]

Hey everyone,

Sorry for the delay- haven’t checked the forums in several days. Was in DC Monday, Atlanta yesterday/today. I’m exhausted, frankly. I have only slept one night in my bed in the past like 10 nights. I am as eager as you guys for this to work, for my own hair, for my own livelihood, and for all of you who have taken the time to encourage (or slam) me/us. You have no idea the nature or extent of the personal sacrifices Dr. Hsu, I, and the team are making to try to get this thing to go. Honestly, I feel the weight of all your hopes and concerns and skepticism and excitement weighing on me all the time. This isn’t something I take lightly. I don’t want to let you down, or be let down. I am not asking for sympathy, as this is my choice, just letting you know how much I have in this and how important it is to me.

I want to address a variety of things I have read over since my last post, in no particular order but hopefully with some coherence:

Re: the rat model/pics:

We used the CD hairless rat, which has a gene mutation that gives it kinky, wiry, wispy hair. This is ideal for transdermal testing, because it limits any follicular transport that could confound results, and the hair isn’t in the way. So basically, we are growing hair despite a gene that should be preventing it. We find that compelling. There are other rat models that are hairier or at least look it, used by other companies to show growth, about which you are all rightfully skeptical. As far as our pictures go- we are not professionals in that regard, and the inconsistency comes from user error and cropping, not from trying to find lighting or zoom that makes it look better than it is.

We began these animal studies assuming it would be brought through the normal drug development route. Many cosmetic companies and governments ban animal testing, thus we will not try this on any other animal model. Just humans with proper protocol and approval.

For human trials, we will be using a special camera and software that actually counts follicles present, and consistency of photos will absolutely be key.

Re: timeline of development:

The timeline may be optimistic but not impossible. I am a go-go-go type, and it’s my job to create urgency, and Dr. Hsu’s job to ensure scientific integrity and safety. Basically, right now IGF-1 is hard to get. The only indication it’s approved for is IGF-1 deficiency, a pretty small patient population. So it’s harder to get than we anticipated, but we are working to build up the supply chain for that for the long term, since it can take a while to get up and running. This is just speculation at this point, but I would not be surprised to see that we can only produce a few thousand units per month initially, so supply may be small up front and prices may be temporarily high. This is not to squeeze you but as a function of supply and demand. The goal is to have enough to supply our early adopters (at a reasonable price), as previously noted, and use that money to build out the full manufacturing. The other pieces are pretty simple- packaging, etc.

Along those lines, about IGF-1: we are not worried about safety but need to show efficacy and dosing schedule and cycles. The amount we are using is 1000x less concentrated than IGF-1 injections for IGF-1 deficiency, assuming one injection site. So we are 1000x less concentrated and also way more diffuse across the scalp- we don’t anticipate any side effect or ancillary issues. We are way less worried about safety issues/risks of side effects than about learning the dosing cycles that work. As long as we are showing reasonable growth amongst a reasonable amount of people, we will release and keep learning as we go. We’ll rely on you for a lot of that information.
The Website: a few people noted it was down and panicked. We’re still here, I just screwed up. We had a placeholder URL before we named the product. When we did name it, we just forwarded the domain as it was easier. Now we are dropping the placeholder and just making ************* be *************. I forgot to change some settings so it was down for a bit. All better. (Also uploading our new and finalized logo tomorrow-check it out tomorrow afternoon EDT).

Part of the reason for that, and this addresses some other concerns brought up, is that in order to stay within FDA guidelines, we may be changing the claims of our product. We are not changing the formulation or product, but what we can say it achieves may need to change to stay in compliance with FDA regulations and get it to market ASAP. The results of the trials and the pictures will say all we need to about the product. The science behind it is sound, and results are what matter, not claims.

As far as selling out to investors and pharma, I can’t possibly predict that, but can tell you we definitely want this to stay on the shelves and wouldn’t sell to someone we thought would kill it. Not sure why they would either if it works or sells. That said, we like being the underdogs and being independent. We have goals for the overall company and technology, and we will do what we need to to achieve those. Hopefully sales will be enough. Truly, we aren’t greedy with it. If it’s serving its purpose, we couldn’t ask for more than that!

Re: the dreaded gel cap:

There is no “gel cap”. We envision using FolliceptTM in your sleep for convenience. If that is the case, it would be advisable to wear a breathable cap- like a surgeon’s cap that stays cool overnight to keep it off your pillow, face, eyes, etc. If it suits you better to use it for 6-8 hours during the day, go for it. As time goes on, it may become clear that more or less treatment time is required. Someone asked why we went public so early, this is partly why. We value your feedback and dialogue and always run across things we never would have expected or thought of. We also plainly thought it would be a lot more difficult to cut through the noise and gain any traction. We figured it would take 6 months to start connecting and gaining trust and excitement for our product which would launch around that time. Had no clue that we’d be received so well. Even the skepticism has been generally well-meaning and of course well-founded, and certainly more intelligent and informed than we would have imagined. So thanks for all that.

Re: the science:

I can’t get into our formulation too much, because it’s our secret sauce and the source of our IP. And frankly, it’s insanely simple so we don’t want it out there too much. We have been invited to present our technology at the American Diabetes Association Annual Meeting, and the European Society for Pediatric Endocrinology, so the science is sound. It has to do with a unique combination of thermosensitive components that had never been tried before. Dr. Hsu selected them for their thermosensitivity, but it turned out they had secondary properties that in this specific combination had a huge penetration-enhancing effect.

The minoxidil issue is not a marketing gimmick- I truly hadn’t even thought about that but wish I could take credit for how genius that sounds hahaha.

Minoxidil can be a very dangerous antihypertensive. The FDA has come down hard several times on Rogaine and other brands for variations and different concentrations because it can be so dangerous. This is actually the reason the hair growth space is so heavily regulated. Hopefully, you won’t need minoxidil because FolliceptTM works well enough anyway, but it will likely be a matter of safety such that we have to encourage you to stop minoxidil.

AGA is definitely a complex issue, likely a group of conditions/factors, and we hope to learn more and contribute to understanding of the issue, that’s another reason why the science so important to us.

Finally, about contacting us, when you sign up/comment on the site, I get a notification email with your comments (if any). Many people also separately send me the same comments/questions directly to my email. I am now up to between 100-300 emails a day, just from that stuff. I genuinely try to respond to any questions/comments I get, but it gets hard when I get the same things that are addressed in the FAQ or on this forum. We don’t know yet what Norwood levels we can affect to/from. We will tell you when trials begin. We will release those results as they happen, even if negative. As I said above, I take this position and project seriously, and it weighs on me because of who I am as a person, and the faith and hope you have placed in me/us. Thus, I kindly request that you limit your emails to me to specific questions if absolutely necessary. I will check the forum as often as I can, and respond and update. As before, if I go dark, it means I am busy helping get this closer to your hands and heads. I do get your notes of encouragement when you sign up, or funny comments, and though I immediately delete them so I can find emails from my boss and such (your addresses and comments are stored on the website server, don’t worry), I often smile or chuckle, so thanks. Don’t take it personally if I don’t respond- I usually try to at least say thanks.

I hope this encourages you all and lets you know where we are coming from. Hopefully it feels like an update and allays some concerns, even though we don’t have as much progress as we want by now. I will begin testing on myself the moment the IGF-1 comes in the door, which could be any day. I will make a video and/or pics the day I start it, and keep you posted on that for sure.

Take care and thanks for all the time and effort you put into supporting and advising us. Keep it up, we’re working hard for you.

Devon/Follicept/Prometheon Pharma.

Devon, thank you again for your commitment to helping to alleviate all the suffering all of us are going through. So you are waiting for the first batch of the IGF-1 right now? Can you please let us know when you start using it yourself! Any day now sounds very, very exciting

[rhysmorgan]

Lol. You're telling people to not discuss a potential future treatment for hair loss... on a future treatment for hair loss forum. Perhaps if you allow us to continue this "100 page" thread that has you feeling perturbed, we might eventually "learn a thing" and reach your level of knowledge. Please be patient with us peon masses. Ty.

No, I'm saying don't put so much hope into it. Discussing it is what the forum is for, but some people here seem to be betting the farm on it. I've been on hairloss forums, since, christ, 2000 ish, and have seen this sort of thing over and over and over and over and over and over. So yeah, I think keeping your hopes pinned down to the floor is a good idea generally. However, I'm not sitting on a pedestal here, I've done similar myself, although not on stuff that has only been tested on mice or rats; that's just stupid.

[NeedHairASAP]

devon, wouldnt it be possible to just lower the concentration of minox or fin (by let's say factor 100 or 1000) to have the same positive effect because of your new vehicle? couldn't you bypass the FDA then as the dose is negligible low? maybe the low dose could be defined as cosmetic only, like the IGF-1 thing.

i mean, if the IGF-1 trials show only low success, you would still have the possibility to mix it with other stuff (of which we know they are beneficial to hair), e.g. copper, zinc, minox, fin, even new molecules like CB and RU. with your vehicle you could create such a powerful weapon!!!

i still hope that this mentioned step is not required because IGF1 should do the trick alone, but if it turns out that results are not like expected, your new vehicle could still be a gamechanger!

additionally, fin and all the other stuff you mentioned works by blocking DHT. DHT brings down igf-1 in follicles. So again, if they can deliver igf-1 to the follicle, there is probably no reason to block dht or use minox to stimulate igf-1--- because again you are getting igf-1 to the follicles

[noisette]

Devon explains some things about their transdermal technology. We can see their Lab. Good to see and also exciting by the results. wait and see : www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mo3F-Dgx0Q

[Give it a go]

If this were the case, it would be the answer to so many peoples prayers, what are others peoples opinions on needhairs claim?