Kythera Acquires Rights to PGD2 Blocking Setipriprant for New Hair Loss Treatment

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Finasteride along with Setipiprant and Minox should yield some impressive results. I wonder what we can get in combination with Histogen/Replicel should either of them come to fruition.

I honestly believe there is a race to get setipiprant, as well as bimatoprost out there. You won't need anything else, treatment wise. One will stop hair loss, and the other will regrow spots you need it in. That's it. That's one of the reasons I find this very exciting.

[unbalding]

The concern for me is does your body compensate by increasing PGD2 further or producing more PGD2 receptors, thus making a permanent treatment more difficult when that comes along.

[Thinning87]

I gotta say, sdsrufin brings up good points from time to time but he often goes way too far in his judgements. It's like he always knows everything that is going on behind the scenes in any company or lab. Any time there is an announcement by someone in the hairloss community you be he'll be here making his predictions. He called me a troll when I announced my roommate and my good friend's names were on the Sanford Burnham paper a few weeks ago. I reported what they told me personally and he insisted that I was full of it. Then he totally changes his mind days later when he reads the paper in more depth.

For once, sdsrufin you can just stop talking about everything because you're just another amateur poster on some forum. Please try to find something other than spamming the entire forum with your judgements about things you obviously don't know anything about.

[HairlossAt15]

We are not on the same page, I have read all the papers from Cotsarelis and Garza and have a firm understanding of the Science and trial process.

First lets clarify how powerful placebo is:

"In the 1950's a man dying of advanced cancer learned of an experimental drug called krebiozen, which many people considered a miracle cure for cancer. The man desperately insisted he be given it. After a single dose his huge cancers "melted like snowballs on a hot stove" and he was able to resume normal activities.

Then disaster struck. Studies of krebiozen showed it to be ineffective, and when the man read this his cancer once again began spreading. At this stage his doctor tried an experiment. He announced that there was a new, "improved" krebiozen and the patient would now receive it. Once again the man's tumors shrank. Yet in fact the doctor had given him only water. [Case was reported in a medical journal in 1957]"

Now lets look at the side effects

Major : none!

Minor:

Headache (25%) : You cant record a headache with any apparatus, in trials the patients are simply asked "Did you feel any adverse effect e.g headache etc" (or something similar to that).To which people give their answer, for absolute transparency, these are noted down as official side effects.. even though you have no idea if it was the drug. It could be from any of these things : anger, frustration, dehydration, exhaustion (end of a hard week) etc etc. You can also easily talk yourself into a headache from paranoia. Just like you can talk yourself into stress, sadness etc.

Flatulence (15%) : Interesting one, but again hard to measure and confirm it is related to the drug, could just be from eating bad food etc. The patients are knowingly taking an "experimental" drug, leads to fear in some people - when I was young and naive I used to get sick to my stomach just when taking pain killers(before I even took them and then got worse after), just didnt like pills at all, would be afraid after taking it, leading to feeling sick to my stomach and puking a few times.

Somnolence and fatigue (10%) : Fatigue? You mean the feeling you have after a hard day at work? Come on guys, impossible to relate this to the drug. "10%" thats about the percentage of people who are depressed/stressed out all the time. Not even significant in any way.

I never said this was the cure, but it could very well be after some tinkering and adding some growth factors to.

"To test the effect of PGD2 on human hair growth, we used explanted human hair follicles maintained in culture for 7 days. We added increasing amounts (from 0 to 10 μM) of PGD2, 15-dPGJ2, or vehicle to the culture medium and measured hair length (Fig. 6D). Starting at 5 μM, PGD2 and 15-dPGJ2 significantly inhibited hair growth. At 10 μM, PGD2-treated hair was 62 ± 5% shorter than vehicle, whereas 10 μM 15-dPGJ2 completely inhibited all hair growth. We tested a variety of other PGD2 analogs and found them to be capable of inhibiting hair lengthening."

Blocking the DHT pathway is even better

How so? I think that will lead to far worse side effects..

This was not a warning or an issue in the trials for these drugs, and many doctors don't even know that you can withdraw from them, but it's possible and maybe probable after long enough use.

Good to see you are smarter than doctors. "Withdrawals", people say they get that from eating less chocolate..also its not a complicated concept, dont know why your making it out to be so..

If you can't understand what I'm saying then just forget about it. I would like the people that do understand to ask knowledgeable people and scientists what they think. that's all.

How pretentious...

[sdsurfin]

Yeah I really wish someone would take the initiative to schedule an appointment with the guy in san diego, it would be very easy to do and might elucidate a lot. I know there are guys in cali on this forum. Regrettably cotsarellis is very hard to contact if not impossible, as is garza.

We could very well be one of the luckiest generations as far as hair loss is concerned, but it will def come at a price. We will probably see a better maintenance option than propecia in our time, and the next generation will likely get a pretty full cure. Between Prip and Bim and SM and replicel and CB something is gonna pan out, likely we will see a precentor drug and a growth drug, and probably a lot of guys will be able to handle the sides. This won't be a done, side free deal until they figure out gene editing, which will take a long long time. Even making new follicles, which is likely to happen in the next 20 yrs, will not be successful without medications that keep it going, and that means sides.

I think the best we can do is join forces and push for drug companies to be honest and to make either topical versions or oral formulations that truly take our health into consideration. I'm pretty pissed that we don't have a topical AA at this point, because there are several candidates better than CB, and I hope this pGD2 stuff won't stop them from being developed. they have less chance of causing sides than medications that **** with our immune receptors.

[Gerhard]

true and my bad, I didn't start the name calling but I should just ignore it.

It's all good, brother. We can all get frustrated sometimes. Trust me, I am definitely not a paragon of calmness or anything! But I can understand why tension can run high in this. We all put our faith and trust into something and we hope that it works out, but the reality is that even if it is a milestone there are a lot more factors before it can be a success. Some people see that and some people don't want to. We all just have to remember that the best thing we can do is work together and update with beneficial questions, concerns and progress.

? I don't even know if you read any of what I wrote. Everything you say is true but it has nothing to do with what I'm warning people about. Just because a drug works doesn't mean it's gonna be pleasant or worth it to take. And we don't even know if it works. Kythera are taking an informed gamble on something tested in vitro and with a good theory behind it. That doesn't mean this drug is the perfect way to implement that knowledge. Blocking the DHT pathway is even better but we still haven't gotten the perfect drug to deal with that. Just saying we are in very preliminary areas, and tbh hair growth was not an astounding aspect of any of their past trials, so IMO it's def not a miracle cure. Millions of people take zyrtec or claritin, but they are warned not to take it for too long. This was not a warning or an issue in the trials for these drugs, and many doctors don't even know that you can withdraw from them, but it's possible and maybe probable after long enough use. Even if you don't withdraw, being exhausted and headachy and farting all the time is pretty awful. And no headaches weren't a placebo effect, at 25%. thats too many people to just make something up. Not to mention its a well documented major side effect of other antihistamines. If you can't understand what I'm saying then just forget about it. I would like the people that do understand to ask knowledgeable people and scientists what they think. that's all.

For now we'll just have to wait and see what results they publish in the future and hope for the best. A lot of people will prefer to only look at the presentation pdf rather than also take the critiques you've posted as well. Again, thanks for posting them though. You've made me more aware of the situation and helped me determine what questions we should be asking of Kythera and trying to learn more about.

[sdsurfin]

Lmao cotsaerlis spells out in his studies how big of a impact pgd2 has on hair growth. Then the Kythera presentation translates it into laymen terms. Human hairs grows as normal when pgd2 effect is removed, simple as that.

Headaches are normal side effects in any trial... Probably just placebo effect from paranoid testers...

? I don't even know if you read any of what I wrote. Everything you say is true but it has nothing to do with what I'm warning people about. Just because a drug works doesn't mean it's gonna be pleasant or worth it to take. And we don't even know if it works. Kythera are taking an informed gamble on something tested in vitro and with a good theory behind it. That doesn't mean this drug is the perfect way to implement that knowledge. Blocking the DHT pathway is even better but we still haven't gotten the perfect drug to deal with that. Just saying we are in very preliminary areas, and tbh hair growth was not an astounding aspect of any of their past trials, so IMO it's def not a miracle cure. Millions of people take zyrtec or claritin, but they are warned not to take it for too long. This was not a warning or an issue in the trials for these drugs, and many doctors don't even know that you can withdraw from them, but it's possible and maybe probable after long enough use. Even if you don't withdraw, being exhausted and headachy and farting all the time is pretty awful. And no headaches weren't a placebo effect, at 25%. thats too many people to just make something up. Not to mention its a well documented major side effect of other antihistamines. If you can't understand what I'm saying then just forget about it. I would like the people that do understand to ask knowledgeable people and scientists what they think. that's all.

[sdsurfin]

2014, we're all as hopeful and as excited as you on the development of this drug. However, you need to accept that sdsurfin has made some valid and very real points. While we may not want to hear them, they are possibilities that must be considered, weighed, and remind ourselves of. Not everything is perfect. His points on the effects of prolonged antihistamine usage is valid. Be respectful, please. We're all brothers in the hairloss boat.





Remember, we're all brothers in this. No need to be name calling and such. We're all old enough to avoid that. I think your points are valid and useful and I'm happy that you've presented them. Whether it's good or bad news all news is important to gauge the possible efficacy of these future treatments and if we have reason to be wary or concerned.

true and my bad, I didn't start the name calling but I should just ignore it.

[Gerhard]

You are spewing utter nonsense. I'm done responding to you.

2014, we're all as hopeful and as excited as you on the development of this drug. However, you need to accept that sdsurfin has made some valid and very real points. While we may not want to hear them, they are possibilities that must be considered, weighed, and remind ourselves of. Not everything is perfect. His points on the effects of prolonged antihistamine usage is valid. Be respectful, please. We're all brothers in the hairloss boat.

You're a moron. People can decide for themselves if what I'm saying is nonsense. My father is a dermatologist and I'm a biology major. None of what I'm saying is anything more than informed and knowledgeable speculation. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. Even if I'm right I'm sure there will be lucky people who can use this without consequence, there always are. I've tried contacting these guys to no avail. Best bet would be for someone in cali to make an appointment to see the head of research who is a dermatologist.

Remember, we're all brothers in this. No need to be name calling and such. We're all old enough to avoid that. I think your points are valid and useful and I'm happy that you've presented them. Whether it's good or bad news all news is important to gauge the possible efficacy of these future treatments and if we have reason to be wary or concerned.

[HairlossAt15]

Lmao cotsaerlis spells out in his studies how big of a impact pgd2 has on hair growth. Then the Kythera presentation translates it into laymen terms. Human hairs grows as normal when pgd2 effect is removed, simple as that.

Headaches are normal side effects in any trial... Probably just placebo effect from paranoid testers...

[sdsurfin]

Meh gotta side with sdsurfin on this one I guess. I'm glad that we're moving forward and I'm not going to make any guesses/assumptions about its efficacy and sides. But IF it could give the same sides like antihistamines (sleepinness, drowsiness and headaches) then that's a pitty really. Ofcourse it's to each his own to say "I'd prefer x side over y side" but personally, I think being sleepy most of the time and having frequent headaches will drastically decrease the quality of ones life. But we will see, let's wait for the trials first.


@sdsurfin, you were talking about the withdrawal effect of antihistamines but the withdrawal effect in itself shouldn't be that much of a problem right? I don't know how frequently we have to apply this, but if we would have to apply this every day for the rest of our lives, then we wouldn't ever have a withdrawal effect right?

But there are obv the sides, which could suck. I've read about that drowsiness caused by antihistamines before and it didn't seem like it was something you could come to terms with and live with the rest of your life

Well the problem is that with things like zyrtec, they often lose their effectiveness over time. To keep having the same effect you have to take more and more, and that can be damaging to your body, not to mention with higher doses you get more sides. Then when people try to quit they go through major withdrawals. The problem is that the receptor that you are blocking is not just used in your body for hair, just like 5ar enzyme has many purposes besides killing hair. The good thing is that if you can tough the withdrawal out you might not be permanently affected, as happens with some propecia users. Could maybe take this for ten years and then go through a really shitty month or so of quitting. It's less of a risk to take than permanently killing your dick. Hopefully withdrawals from this would be rare (and i think topical applications are usually less absorbed as a whole, despite naysayers), and hopefully the side effects are tolerable. Really I'm more scared that it will be a great drug but that most of us won't be able to use it. I can't even use minox because it gives me awful raccoon bags under my eyes, and if 25 percent of people are getting headaches and sleepiness from Pip (I'm officially abbreviating setipiprant to pip cause that shit is hard to type and remember) then it doesn't bode well for many of us. Keep your fingers crossed. Replicel is in phase 2, so you might have a better option by the time this comes out anyway.

[Illusion]

Meh gotta side with sdsurfin on this one I guess. I'm glad that we're moving forward and I'm not going to make any guesses/assumptions about its efficacy and sides. But IF it could give the same sides like antihistamines (sleepinness, drowsiness and headaches) then that's a pitty really. Ofcourse it's to each his own to say "I'd prefer x side over y side" but personally, I think being sleepy most of the time and having frequent headaches will drastically decrease the quality of ones life. But we will see, let's wait for the trials first.


@sdsurfin, you were talking about the withdrawal effect of antihistamines but the withdrawal effect in itself shouldn't be that much of a problem right? I don't know how frequently we have to apply this, but if we would have to apply this every day for the rest of our lives, then we wouldn't ever have a withdrawal effect right?

But there are obv the sides, which could suck. I've read about that drowsiness caused by antihistamines before and it didn't seem like it was something you could come to terms with and live with the rest of your life

[sdsurfin]

You are spewing utter nonsense. I'm done responding to you.

You're a moron. People can decide for themselves if what I'm saying is nonsense. My father is a dermatologist and I'm a biology major. None of what I'm saying is anything more than informed and knowledgeable speculation. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. Even if I'm right I'm sure there will be lucky people who can use this without consequence, there always are. I've tried contacting these guys to no avail. Best bet would be for someone in cali to make an appointment to see the head of research who is a dermatologist.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

In vitro is not the same as in vivo. Also, PGD2 is not the only cause of hairloss. You have no idea how it works compared to propecia, nor do they really. blocking DHT is actually potentially more effective BECAUSE it is upstream, and blocks any and all interactions that are downstream. By blocking PGD2, you are only blocking one of the things that DHT unleashes. My personal informed take is that this will be quite effective at stopping hair loss (basing this on trials of very similar compounds run by forum users, and by the way that this pathway works). I don't think much regrowth will occur. Combining with another drug might be very good for stopping hairloss and gaining back hair, but the question becomes how many and how severe are the side effects form one or both of these drugs. From the safety trials I'm not too optimistic, and trust me I would like to be. But 25% of people getting headaches is a lot of side effects, and if the drug is this potent an antihistamine, I'm almost positive it won't be great for you long term. Again, I could be wrong. This is going to have to be tested long term with dosing trials. I think the best thing we can take from this is that someone researched hair loss, and a company acted on it. first time in history.

You are spewing utter nonsense. I'm done responding to you.

[sdsurfin]

They said the drug works in vitro, because they studied it in hair chemical pathways. It does not have sexual side effects because it was tested on hundreds of healthy men and women in an oral form, and there were no reportings. Theoretically, it will be more effective than finasteride because PGD2 is further downstream of DHT. Finasteride doesn't block all DHT, and therefore doesn't block the creation of excess PGD2.

I've been posting on this forum since 2014, but have been reading for much longer.

In vitro is not the same as in vivo. Also, PGD2 is not the only cause of hairloss. You have no idea how it works compared to propecia, nor do they really. blocking DHT is actually potentially more effective BECAUSE it is upstream, and blocks any and all interactions that are downstream. By blocking PGD2, you are only blocking one of the things that DHT unleashes. My personal informed take is that this will be quite effective at stopping hair loss (basing this on trials of very similar compounds run by forum users, and by the way that this pathway works). I don't think much regrowth will occur. Combining with another drug might be very good for stopping hairloss and gaining back hair, but the question becomes how many and how severe are the side effects form one or both of these drugs. From the safety trials I'm not too optimistic, and trust me I would like to be. But 25% of people getting headaches is a lot of side effects, and if the drug is this potent an antihistamine, I'm almost positive it won't be great for you long term. Again, I could be wrong. This is going to have to be tested long term with dosing trials. I think the best thing we can take from this is that someone researched hair loss, and a company acted on it. first time in history.