50 grafts patch test in Vitro Hair Doubling as requested by GC @Dr. Nigam's

[gc83uk]

GC,
Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle.I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.
As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.
I need a particular point where in i can get both epithelial and mesenchymal stemcells inherent in the follicle(i am not claiming i extract stemcells ,they are inherent in the follicle)
We don't need a large punch as the large punch is required for the deep root extraction wherein the roots are diverging into various directions.
We don't need to go deep.
Even going 1mm to 2mm deep and than plucking will do
And accidentally if we extract the full follicle , we implant it back at the donor,we preserve also the unsuitable graft which is a complete follicle.
We need not more the one drill, as.. even if we get a transected follicle without being bisected at the right level,we are still not doing any harm to the donor.
I tilted towarsd's invivo the moment i discovered eyes(copied from arashi) of ht, the ultrasound of hair with special probes.
Regarding previously extracted graft for re extraction and suitable time for the same,theoretically should not be a problem to re extract after 3 months but the real data with evidence, i can show you when i start collecting the same from this month. But personally i feel the time has come ...keep extracting or plucking from the donor every 3 to 4 months and have unlimited hair,
does a beautiful girl loses her eyebrow,
although she plucks her eyebrow every month and the eyebrow regrows with similar thickness and with same speed,
Still that's a good point to analyse in coming weeks.

Thank you for answering my questions.

Can you tell me why you say

I will not disclose the exact level?

[Arashi]

drnigams, I admire the lengths that you are willing to go to provide evidence for your procedure and how accommodating you are to the requests of forum posters. It certainly lends you credibility.

Hehe. I keep being skeptical. Basically he says: yeah we can do the test but not in such a way that fraud is impossible.

Maybe I'm a bit harsh on Dr Nigam. But after all that happened, he must surely understand that we need SOLID proof ... If he's really willing to 'go to lengths' to proof his technique then this shouldn't be that hard, should it ? There are other way's as well.

[JJJJrS]

I have a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.

drnigams, I admire the lengths that you are willing to go to provide evidence for your procedure and how accommodating you are to the requests of forum posters. It certainly lends you credibility.

For now, I'd encourage you to continue posting the results of your 15 graft test. Hopefully neversaynever will also update us. Later on, perhaps you can do a 50 graft test on a forum poster.

[drnigams]

GC,
Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle.I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.
As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.
I need a particular point where in i can get both epithelial and mesenchymal stemcells inherent in the follicle(i am not claiming i extract stemcells ,they are inherent in the follicle)
We don't need a large punch as the large punch is required for the deep root extraction wherein the roots are diverging into various directions.
We don't need to go deep.
Even going 1mm to 2mm deep and than plucking will do
And accidentally if we extract the full follicle , we implant it back at the donor,we preserve also the unsuitable graft which is a complete follicle.
We need not more the one drill, as.. even if we get a transected follicle without being bisected at the right level,we are still not doing any harm to the donor.
I tilted towarsd's invivo the moment i discovered eyes(copied from arashi) of ht, the ultrasound of hair with special probes.
Regarding previously extracted graft for re extraction and suitable time for the same,theoretically should not be a problem to re extract after 3 months but the real data with evidence, i can show you when i start collecting the same from this month. But personally i feel the time has come ...keep extracting or plucking from the donor every 3 to 4 months and have unlimited hair,
does a beautiful girl loses her eyebrow,
although she plucks her eyebrow every month and the eyebrow regrows with similar thickness and with same speed,
Still that's a good point to analyse in coming weeks.

QUOTE=gc83uk;114488]Dr Nigam,

I don't know if this has been asked before...

Lets assume everything you say is correct, what % of invivo is likely to regrow? Is the % dependant on which size punch you use?

Also have you tested re extracting previously extracted FU's to see if they regrow a 2nd or 3rd time? If yes, how many months do you suggest waiting inbetween procedures to guarantee it will regrow just like the first procedure?[/QUOTE]

[Arashi]

Thinking about it though, most important at this moment would probably to just shoot good photo's of the cases you're going to do in the next few weeks (like you've just told us). If you can shoot good en useful pre-op en post-op photo's of donor and recipient, then that would be a great start.

[Arashi]

But I do like the change of tone in this thread. Rather than accusing each other and playing this yes/no game, why don't we all try to figure out a way to produce SOLID proof.

[Arashi]

I have a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.

Like GC83UK noted, within a few days extraction points become invisible so if he can't get the plane the next day, then it's not going to be any good unfortunately.

[gc83uk]

Dr Nigam,

I don't know if this has been asked before...

Lets assume everything you say is correct, what % of invivo is likely to regrow? Is the % dependant on which size punch you use?

Also have you tested re extracting previously extracted FU's to see if they regrow a 2nd or 3rd time? If yes, how many months do you suggest waiting inbetween procedures to guarantee it will regrow just like the first procedure?

[drnigams]

I have a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.

So yeah, there are options to show SOLID proof here. Would be very interesting to see if Dr Nigams is going to take them

[Arashi]

So yeah, there are options to show SOLID proof here. Would be very interesting to see if Dr Nigams is going to take them

[gc83uk]

I should also add that if you can persuade NSN to do an AFTER picture of those 468 grafts then I think this will be extremely valuable.

I understand we do not have a pre-extraction photo of that area, but at least we will be able to see how many of those 468 sites have regrown.

I know he is busy and it's his prerogative to get on with his life or not want to share with the community, if this is the case, then you just need to get a new patient like NSN, give him a free week holiday in a nice resort in India where he can relax. On the 1st day he has his procedure, On the 7th day ask him to come back into the office and take a good after photo. Don't worry, you really don't need a tattoo. You just need to map the hair grafts, the same way JJJrS / IM did.

I know you have doubts about me being able to find those 468 sites, but it's really not that difficult, even 6 months later it would still be easy.

[Arashi]

After 7 days most of my extraction sites had completely cleared up, so I think this would be a waste of time anyway.

Yes, that's why time is of essence and he'd need to get on the plane to the Netherlands the day after the test.

[Arashi]

Arashi,
He will be doing doubling of 1000 grafts plus take HM and dp injections.
How will you analyse.
I am not sure any member would like to disclose his personal identity,he has been advised by me to keep his hair long so that he can cover up his shaved donor, he does not even want anyone to know he got any ht done.
How will you analyse such a case.
I have an office at hague(netherland), would you accept any of my staff who keeps travelling hague to mumbai every month,with your grace he may get a free procedure.

I misunderstood, I thought you were doing a 50 graft test here.

If you're going to perform 1000 grafts doubling, then I don't even need to meet up with him. All we need are good highres pre-op photo's of the donor area you're going to take the grafts from and post-op photo's of the same. And then same for recipient.

However, if you're willing to have your staff member travel from Mumbai to The Hague, then yes, this would be PERFECT. However to make this a solid case, you'd have to agree to certain things. Like that he flies back within 2 days of extraction (so I wouldn't have any problems detecting other extraction points) and we'd need to do a little skype meeting on the day of extraction, so I could see his recipient is still untouched at that time. Not very difficult to arrange I think and yes, that would be SOLID proof.

[gc83uk]

GC , you are right regarding human error when a surgeon does large procedure.
Will you similarly agree with that if i shave this guy(of course i hope i will be able to convince him)than you can clearly rule out the possibility of extraction from any other site ,since his case is only 7 days old ,any other mark of extraction will be visible.
Of course next week i am into next step forward with the next documentation with more improved version.

I think you should leave your poor staff guys hair alone

I don't think he would be happy for you shaving all his hair.

After 7 days most of my extraction sites had completely cleared up, so I think this would be a waste of time anyway.

Honestly Dr Nigam I think the best way forward is to start a fresh on a new patient, preferably somebody who already shaves their head or someone who will need to shave their head for the Doubling procedure.

I admire your efforts in listening to the forum members, I've never known anything like this in my life.

[drnigams]

Arashi,
He will be doing doubling of 1000 grafts plus take HM and dp injections.
How will you analyse.
I am not sure any member would like to disclose his personal identity,he has been advised by me to keep his hair long so that he can cover up his shaved donor, he does not even want anyone to know he got any ht done.
How will you analyse such a case.
I have an office at hague(netherland), would you accept any of my staff who keeps travelling hague to mumbai every month,with your grace he may get a free procedure.

Shaving would already be a lot better proof. But I think it would be a truely solid case if you have your Dutch patient fly back within 1-2 days of extraction and let me meet up with him in the Netherlands the day after that. That would really be a solid case, far beyond shooting a video.