50 grafts patch test in Vitro Hair Doubling as requested by GC @Dr. Nigam's

[drnigams]

I have a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.

So yeah, there are options to show SOLID proof here. Would be very interesting to see if Dr Nigams is going to take them

[gc83uk]

Dr Nigam,

I don't know if this has been asked before...

Lets assume everything you say is correct, what % of invivo is likely to regrow? Is the % dependant on which size punch you use?

Also have you tested re extracting previously extracted FU's to see if they regrow a 2nd or 3rd time? If yes, how many months do you suggest waiting inbetween procedures to guarantee it will regrow just like the first procedure?

[Arashi]

I have a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.

Like GC83UK noted, within a few days extraction points become invisible so if he can't get the plane the next day, then it's not going to be any good unfortunately.

[Arashi]

But I do like the change of tone in this thread. Rather than accusing each other and playing this yes/no game, why don't we all try to figure out a way to produce SOLID proof.

[Arashi]

Thinking about it though, most important at this moment would probably to just shoot good photo's of the cases you're going to do in the next few weeks (like you've just told us). If you can shoot good en useful pre-op en post-op photo's of donor and recipient, then that would be a great start.

[drnigams]

GC,
Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle.I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.
As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.
I need a particular point where in i can get both epithelial and mesenchymal stemcells inherent in the follicle(i am not claiming i extract stemcells ,they are inherent in the follicle)
We don't need a large punch as the large punch is required for the deep root extraction wherein the roots are diverging into various directions.
We don't need to go deep.
Even going 1mm to 2mm deep and than plucking will do
And accidentally if we extract the full follicle , we implant it back at the donor,we preserve also the unsuitable graft which is a complete follicle.
We need not more the one drill, as.. even if we get a transected follicle without being bisected at the right level,we are still not doing any harm to the donor.
I tilted towarsd's invivo the moment i discovered eyes(copied from arashi) of ht, the ultrasound of hair with special probes.
Regarding previously extracted graft for re extraction and suitable time for the same,theoretically should not be a problem to re extract after 3 months but the real data with evidence, i can show you when i start collecting the same from this month. But personally i feel the time has come ...keep extracting or plucking from the donor every 3 to 4 months and have unlimited hair,
does a beautiful girl loses her eyebrow,
although she plucks her eyebrow every month and the eyebrow regrows with similar thickness and with same speed,
Still that's a good point to analyse in coming weeks.

QUOTE=gc83uk;114488]Dr Nigam,

I don't know if this has been asked before...

Lets assume everything you say is correct, what % of invivo is likely to regrow? Is the % dependant on which size punch you use?

Also have you tested re extracting previously extracted FU's to see if they regrow a 2nd or 3rd time? If yes, how many months do you suggest waiting inbetween procedures to guarantee it will regrow just like the first procedure?[/QUOTE]

[JJJJrS]

I have a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.

drnigams, I admire the lengths that you are willing to go to provide evidence for your procedure and how accommodating you are to the requests of forum posters. It certainly lends you credibility.

For now, I'd encourage you to continue posting the results of your 15 graft test. Hopefully neversaynever will also update us. Later on, perhaps you can do a 50 graft test on a forum poster.

[Arashi]

drnigams, I admire the lengths that you are willing to go to provide evidence for your procedure and how accommodating you are to the requests of forum posters. It certainly lends you credibility.

Hehe. I keep being skeptical. Basically he says: yeah we can do the test but not in such a way that fraud is impossible.

Maybe I'm a bit harsh on Dr Nigam. But after all that happened, he must surely understand that we need SOLID proof ... If he's really willing to 'go to lengths' to proof his technique then this shouldn't be that hard, should it ? There are other way's as well.

[gc83uk]

GC,
Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle.I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.
As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.
I need a particular point where in i can get both epithelial and mesenchymal stemcells inherent in the follicle(i am not claiming i extract stemcells ,they are inherent in the follicle)
We don't need a large punch as the large punch is required for the deep root extraction wherein the roots are diverging into various directions.
We don't need to go deep.
Even going 1mm to 2mm deep and than plucking will do
And accidentally if we extract the full follicle , we implant it back at the donor,we preserve also the unsuitable graft which is a complete follicle.
We need not more the one drill, as.. even if we get a transected follicle without being bisected at the right level,we are still not doing any harm to the donor.
I tilted towarsd's invivo the moment i discovered eyes(copied from arashi) of ht, the ultrasound of hair with special probes.
Regarding previously extracted graft for re extraction and suitable time for the same,theoretically should not be a problem to re extract after 3 months but the real data with evidence, i can show you when i start collecting the same from this month. But personally i feel the time has come ...keep extracting or plucking from the donor every 3 to 4 months and have unlimited hair,
does a beautiful girl loses her eyebrow,
although she plucks her eyebrow every month and the eyebrow regrows with similar thickness and with same speed,
Still that's a good point to analyse in coming weeks.

Thank you for answering my questions.

Can you tell me why you say

I will not disclose the exact level?

[534623]

GC,
Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle. I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.

Didn't you know that practically it's IRRELEVANT and NEEDLESS to know that?
The reason why it's irrelevant and needless - oh, THAT's indeed rocket science, because "the exact level" (aka 'perfect level') varies from patient to patient and even from follicle to follicle anyhow (in the same patient!)...that means, you know a shit anyhow about the "exact level" ...

As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.

hmmm, I didn't know that scientists and hair researchers needed various "morphometry studies" to find out "where the root/dermal papilla lies".

Check this out ...

The pic shows a typical Gho-petri-dish with typical Gho-HST-grafts and this pic is taken straight from Dr. Gho's website: http://www.hasci.com/en/rates/
And just in case of any doubts ...

...I couldn't see something different in my OWN petri-dish - could you, gc?

Anyway, the point is:
Even the dumpest hair transplant doctor out there is able to show you in the first pic (with red arrows or something) "where the root/dermal papilla lies" - WITHOUT "morphometry studies"...

[534623]

GC,
Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle.I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.
As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.

By the way - WHO (author) found it out?

Or is that just something you found at hairsite in one of my posts?

[drnigams]

The all knowing great scientist, ironman,
Here we are discussing locating the dermal papilla below the skin and not when it is lying outside the scalp as in your petri dish.
Do you understand the most intelligent researcher mr im.
I will prefer to use world's first ultra sound to locate the exact level of bisection...Because i do not have eyes of a scientist like you ,which can give me vision under the skin,and exacatly so because different follicles have different length and different angle...that's why if you follow blind procedure ,you will lower regen %, grow up...!.
Now i hope the dumbest will understand why it is the only relevant thing in invivo technique.


E=534623;114502]Didn't you know that practically it's IRRELEVANT and NEEDLESS to know that?
The reason why it's irrelevant and needless - oh, THAT's indeed rocket science, because "the exact level" (aka 'perfect level') varies from patient to patient and even from follicle to follicle anyhow...that means, you know a shit anyhow about the "exact level" ...


hmmm, I didn't know that scientists and hair researchers needed various "morphometry studies" to find out "where the root/dermal papilla lies".

Check this out ...

The pic shows a typical Gho-petri-dish with typical Gho-HST-grafts and this pic is taken straight from Dr. Gho's website: http://www.hasci.com/en/rates/
And just in case of any doubts ...

...I couldn't see something different in my OWN petri-dish - could you, gc?

Anyway, the point is:
Even the dumpest hair transplant doctor out there is able to show you in the first pic (with red arrows or something) "where the root/dermal papilla lies" - WITHOUT "morphometry studies"...[/QUOTE]

[drnigams]

The great scientist ,you can just google and type hair morphometry studies and you will get the author...nothing rocket science like...extraction of stemcells... ..preservation media to activate and multiply follicles...!

By the way - WHO (author) found it out?

Or is that just something you found at hairsite in one of my posts?

[Arashi]

GC,

does a beautiful girl loses her eyebrow,
although she plucks her eyebrow every month and the eyebrow regrows with similar thickness and with same speed,
Still that's a good point to analyse in coming weeks.

Maybe I'm missing your point here, how is a girl plucking hairs related to splitting grafts ?

[534623]

I will prefer to use world's first ultra sound to locate the exact level of bisection...Because i do not have eyes of a scientist like you ,which can give me vision under the skin,and exacatly so because different follicles have different length and different angle...that's why if you follow blind procedure ,you will lower regen %, grow up...!.

hmmm, didn't you know that -in theory- you can make a complete hair follicle just from 1 single (hair follicle-)cell?? Just from one!

So who cares about any "bisection level" IF you know how to create a brand new complete follicle just from 1 (hair follicle-) cell.

THE reason why most researchers out there always get just "mixed results" from bisection studies is just due to lack of knowledge about what I have just explained... and yeah, so it's not surprising that, of course, they get always better results the more "cells" they extract and implant the greater the success. And the lesser the "mass of cells" the greater the failure - but all that is just one reason why most HT docs still prefer to extract and to transplant "the whole mass" of something - as with heart or kidney transplants ...lol