50 grafts patch test in Vitro Hair Doubling as requested by GC @Dr. Nigam's

[gc83uk]

gc,
nsn shows 8 fu growing as doubles out of the 9 visible in the photo posted ,one extraction site was outside the frame of the photo,you can confirmt he same.
Which means 90% regeneration at donor.
1graft did not show up as on today because in most probability it was extracted from the root as a complete follicular unit as in fue.
Yes we may extract a graft in telogen like any fue/fut procedure can also have the grafts in telo and anagen.
IN in vivo one can loose grafts at the donor when a complete fu is extracted or would seem to have lost the fu at donor or recipient when certain fu may be in telogen,but will only seem to have been lost ,it will come back when it comes to anagen phase.
it may be new to you about their claim of regen with preservation media..just read their patent..preservation media contents have been claimed to activate stemcells and multiply follicles...than what are we wasting time in labs and working towards creating a hair germ in the lab to create new follicles..because im has invented a preservation media to do that and im can also extract the impossible stemcell from the follicle in vivo with his special triple waved needle and create new follicles...
If only extracted or activated stemcells at bulge that is cd34+ can create new hair than aderans dr nigam would have been 100% successful with our hm solution injections with millions of such cells and more....

hehe ok, but you don't really believe Iron Man works for Hasci do you?

I think your smarter than that.

He has nothing to do with Hasci, so whatever Iron Man claims he can do, which maybe he can, but still they aren't the words of Hasci.

[534623]

But let me tell you with full confidence that ..the so called ..PRESERVATION media is an ILLUSION and and does not have the power to multiply follicles.

That is correct!
Dr. Gho's preservation medium doesn't have the power to multiply follicles. The medium has just the power to keep the enclosed (but significantly reduced) cells within the follicle tissue not just alive - the medium has also the power to trigger healthy cell-proliferation/division in the grafts (aka "in vivo hair stem cell multiplication). All that (including some additional factors patients' get orally before and after the procedure) is Dr. Gho's rocket science ... lol ... often tried to copy - but never reached ...

[drnigams]

gc,
nsn shows 8 fu growing as doubles out of the 9 visible in the photo posted ,one extraction site was outside the frame of the photo,you can confirmt he same.
Which means 90% regeneration at donor.
1graft did not show up as on today because in most probability it was extracted from the root as a complete follicular unit as in fue.
Yes we may extract a graft in telogen like any fue/fut procedure can also have the grafts in telo and anagen.
IN in vivo one can loose grafts at the donor when a complete fu is extracted or would seem to have lost the fu at donor or recipient when certain fu may be in telogen,but will only seem to have been lost ,it will come back when it comes to anagen phase.
it may be new to you about their claim of regen with preservation media..just read their patent..preservation media contents have been claimed to activate stemcells and multiply follicles...than what are we wasting time in labs and working towards creating a hair germ in the lab to create new follicles..because im has invented a preservation media to do that and im can also extract the impossible stemcell from the follicle in vivo with his special triple waved needle and create new follicles...
If only extracted or activated stemcells at bulge that is cd34+ can create new hair than aderans dr nigam would have been 100% successful with our hm solution injections with millions of such cells and more....

What Iron Man claims in terms of his knowledge on Hair Multiplication and what Hasci/Gho do is completely separate. I hope you understand this.

Ok, so your saying you can increase the number of hairs in each FU than there originally was.

The thing is, I'm not talking about the number of hairs, I'm talking about the FU's. Surely it's possible that you extract a graft that is in telogen?

For example, NSN only shows 80% regrowth of the regrown FU's around his birthmark.

[Arashi]

Well I think so, but I think we should hear it from the horses mouth. .

Should be very interesting. Cause if you guys are right, then everything that Dr Nigams has been doing and saying here pretty much was total BS. Using ultrasound technology won't make ANY difference at all in that case.

[gc83uk]

So wait. According to you guys, IM and GC, the failed regrowth is due to extraction of grafts that are in the telogen phase. Which makes a lot of sense, since it would explain that 20% being pretty contstant.

According to Dr Nigam on the other hand, failed regrowth is due to imperfect cutting of the graft. He's going to try to do that better with his ultrasound gear. But if this is not even a factor, like GC and IM claim, then what's the point of using ultrasound technology anyway ?

Well I think so, but I think we should hear it from the horses mouth. Maybe some admittance from Dr Nigam, that it is indeed possible to mistakenly extract a FU which is in telogen. If this happens then this FU is likely to not regrow and a hairless gap will exist. If he can confirm this or disprove it that would be interesting.

[Arashi]

So wait. According to you guys, IM and GC, the failed regrowth is due to extraction of grafts that are in the telogen phase. Which makes a lot of sense, since it would explain that 20% being pretty contstant.

According to Dr Nigam on the other hand, failed regrowth is due to imperfect cutting of the graft. He's going to try to do that better with his ultrasound gear. But if this is not even a factor, like GC and IM claim, then what's the point of using ultrasound technology anyway ?

[gc83uk]

I think what he says is that if you add the right mixture of stem cells to the graft, it will generate extra follicles.

Yes I get this, but it's distracting from the original question IMO

[gc83uk]

GC,
actually im claims invivo hair multiplication with stemcells.
He should ideally have more than 100% regen as he can multiply follicles with his preservation medium etc.
GC,
more than 100% regen means when dp mesenchymal cells,activated stemcells from various parts of follicle plus growth stimulating growth factors are injected into a bisected or wounded follicle there is enough stuff to create new follicles than originally present...or else dr nigams,aderans and all others should not have any result from their stemcell solution when injected even on a normal non wounded scalp without any proto bisected hair structure.

What Iron Man claims in terms of his knowledge on Hair Multiplication and what Hasci/Gho do is completely separate. I hope you understand this.

Ok, so your saying you can increase the number of hairs in each FU than there originally was.

The thing is, I'm not talking about the number of hairs, I'm talking about the FU's. Surely it's possible that you extract a graft that is in telogen?

For example, NSN only shows 80% regrowth of the regrown FU's around his birthmark.

[534623]

Let's use this example, you extract 100 single FU's from the donor, and all 100 of these single FU's grow back in the donor, then you have 100% - The maximum. How can you get more in the donor than 100%?

Exactly - how can you get more in the donor than 100%??

[Arashi]

I still don't understand how you can have more than 100% regen in the donor. Please explain this to me Dr Nigam.

I think what he says is that if you add the right mixture of stem cells to the graft, it will generate extra follicles.

[gc83uk]

GC, Arashi,
Today the discussions are very constructive,and arashi good you raised the point of lower regen of donor at ironmans clinic,or i would have been accused of biased comment.
Lower regen at donor and recipient is also, because as believed by most of the surgeons ,( as seen in im's histopath slide of transverse bisected fu)
im extracts 1 or 2 complete follicles from a 3 follicle graft,that's why you can clearly see intact follicles at the petri dish and ironman himself posted that any dumb surgeon can see the dermal papilla(the root) in the follicles lying in the petri dish..
Of course partially transected few follicles may grow.
But let me tell you with full confidence that ..the so called ..PRESERVATION media is an ILLUSION and and does not have the power to multiply follicles.
IM just posted IN THEORY,1 follicle can generate many follicle and he is successfull in that, than why not 100% regen at donor and recipient.
Aderans , we and many others have millions of stemcells to inject,which includes virtually all possible stem cells present in a follicle, still we cannot claim new follicle regen will be their in all scalps with our powerful stemcell solution injections.

But yes in theory ironman can create multiple follicles with his stemcell invivo hair multiplication....!

Do Hasci claim the preservation medium multiply follicles? This is news to me. Surely it's called Preservation medium because it does just that: preserve!

I still don't understand how you can have more than 100% regen in the donor. Please explain this to me Dr Nigam.

Let's use this example, you extract 100 single FU's from the donor, and all 100 of these single FU's grow back in the donor, then you have 100% - The maximum. How can you get more in the donor than 100%?

[drnigams]

GC,
actually im claims invivo hair multiplication with stemcells.
He should ideally have more than 100% regen as he can multiply follicles with his preservation medium etc.
GC,
more than 100% regen means when dp mesenchymal cells,activated stemcells from various parts of follicle plus growth stimulating growth factors are injected into a bisected or wounded follicle there is enough stuff to create new follicles than originally present..
or else dr nigams,aderans and all others should not have any result from their stemcell solution when injected even on a normal non wounded scalp without any proto bisected hair structure.

Please have a closer look at the donor pics of patch test i posted today .
Ideally the test patch case should not have more than 46 follicles in total as there were only 23 follicles in the extracted 15 grafts.
But you can clearly count even at the 7th day we have 30 plus follicles at the donor regenerating and clearly visible,watch out for the recipient regen tmr,follow this case for 3 months.
Tmr itself if it shows more than 46 follicles in donor and recipient....you are already at more than 100% regrowth both at donor and recipient .
I can tell you even in nsn recipient you will see near 100% regen.

I'm sorry, but how can you have higher than 100% regen in the donor?

Am I missing something?

[Arashi]

ironmans clinic

Hehe. Ironman seems to be quite knowledgable on the subject but if he's working for Gho then I'm going to eat my shoes

[drnigams]

GC, Arashi,
Today the discussions are very constructive,and arashi good you raised the point of lower regen of donor at ironmans clinic,or i would have been accused of biased comment.
Lower regen at donor and recipient is also, because as believed by most of the surgeons ,( as seen in im's histopath slide of transverse bisected fu)
im extracts 1 or 2 complete follicles from a 3 follicle graft,that's why you can clearly see intact follicles at the petri dish and ironman himself posted that any dumb surgeon can see the dermal papilla(the root) in the follicles lying in the petri dish..
Of course partially transected few follicles may grow.
But let me tell you with full confidence that ..the so called ..PRESERVATION media is an ILLUSION and and does not have the power to multiply follicles.
IM just posted IN THEORY,1 follicle can generate many follicle and he is successfull in that, than why not 100% regen at donor and recipient.
Aderans , we and many others have millions of stemcells to inject,which includes virtually all possible stem cells present in a follicle, still we cannot claim new follicle regen will be their in all scalps with our powerful stemcell solution injections.

But yes in theory ironman can create multiple follicles with his stemcell invivo hair multiplication....!

IM is Totally wrong, if you compare with my donor regen which is much higher than 100%, the true invivo stemcell follilce multiplication.
I should also have less regen if im is to be believed, as my patients will also have follicles in anagen and telogen,
That's why i say, if you don't share and pronounce your invention as secret, you are definitely not confident of your own technique, and can be exposed...,but still will be.
I would like to quote the word's of DR WESLEY..when you find something exciting ..you can't resist sharing.He also said the invention was nothing but common sense,and he wondered why nobody found till now ..this was regarding his trial on scarlesss procedure.
Arashi it is because many a times they extract complete follicles for implantation at recipient as seen in petri dish as shown by ironman that anyone can easily see dermal papilla in the extracted grafts in ironmans petri dish(again im force's me speak)

[Arashi]

So now we have 2 different explanations for the 20% failed donor regrowth, interesting From my point of view, the IM explanation does make a lot more sense though. Because if Nigams explanation was right, then that 20% number should highly vary, with the skill of the technician. It doesn't seem to happen and the number is quite steady at rougly 20%, which would make a LOT of sense if it was due to the phase cycling telogen/anagen, cause that speed is the same for everybody and hence you will always have the same percentage in telogen/anagen.