Debunking HASCI´s regeneration claim - an open letter.

[Arashi]

But GC, what do you suggest ? They've never released material on their two 50 graft tests. They stopped replying to new requests. What should we now do in your opinion ?

[gc83uk]

I disagree. It at least proves that 85% regeneration isn't a given for everybody. And currently it's the best prediction we have.

Ok well we'll have to agree to disagree.

Not much point in discussing it much more anyway, unless they want to say something on the subject. The open letter is there, so let's see what happens.

[gc83uk]

But GC, what do you suggest ? They've never released material on their two 50 graft tests. They stopped replying to new requests. What should we now do in your opinion ?

Nothing mate, sorry to say.

From a purely selfish point of view, I'm happy with just not having scarring.

I have taken so many photos, which has taken hours upon hours just to try and help where I can. It would have been nice to know for sure we had regeneration, but it is what it is.

See if anything happens, until then pursue Nigam, Mwamba and Pilofocus.

[Arashi]

Nothing mate, sorry to say.

From a purely selfish point of view, I'm happy with just not having scarring.

I have taken so many photos, which has taken hours upon hours just to try and help where I can. It would have been nice to know for sure we had regeneration, but it is what it is.

See if anything happens, until then pursue Nigam, Mwamba and Pilofocus.

So you're suggesting people who are considering getting a procedure, that if their goal would be regeneration, to just forget about Gho and focus on the other doctors ?

[gc83uk]

So you're suggesting people who are considering getting a procedure, that if their goal would be regeneration, to just forget about Gho and focus on the other doctors ?

No not at all, I think people should do their own research and due diligence and come to a decision on their own accord. I would hate to wrongly inform people, I'm sure you would too.

[Arashi]

No not at all, I think people should do their own research and due diligence and come to a decision on their own accord. I would hate to wrongly inform people, I'm sure you would too.

Not sure what you're suggesting. What research do you want people to do ?

[gc83uk]

Not sure what you're suggesting. What research do you want people to do ?

Read the paper, ask questions etc, whether that be in a forum or directly to Hasci.

What do you want me to say?

[Arashi]

Read the paper, ask questions etc, whether that be in a forum or directly to Hasci.

What do you want me to say?

I don't know what I want you to say. My point is, we did everything we possibly could do. We asked them to run tests. They didn't really participate (they never showed us good photo's). We went as far as putting in tons of effort to analyze your case. It showed us regeneration at least in your case was bad. I'm really not sure what to do next but just forget about Gho ?

[gc83uk]

I don't know what I want you to say. My point is, we did everything we possibly could do. We asked them to run tests. They didn't really participate (they never showed us good photo's). We went as far as putting in tons of effort to analyze your case. It showed us regeneration at least in your case was bad. I'm really not sure what to do next but just forget about Gho ?

Yea pretty much, you must admit it's getting a bit boring. Not in a nasty way to you, you're a likeable person and you've done your best.

Chin up

[Arashi]

Yea pretty much, you must admit it's getting a bit boring. Not in a nasty way to you, you're a likeable person and you've done your best.

Chin up

It's just extremely disappointing. There we were, thinking Gho had a cure. It now seems it most probably isn't. We can focus on Mwamba but that would be like believing in Nigams and that's even harder to do My best bet always has been Mousseigne. They showed us incredible good documentation. They were extremely fair, never made bold claims that they couldn't support with evidence. However they've been dead silent for months now .. It just seems this whole theory on donor regeneration might just not work at all. And that's just depressing.

[534623]

GC, your donor indeed wasn't too good to begin with. But keep in mind when comparing HASCI's graft to regular FUE grafts that HASCI seems to transplant way less hair than with a regular FUE.

Other clinics can TRANSPLANT grafts
(rather so-called "skin/hair-plugs") ...



...with more hair/follicles as much as they want and finally, they can give a layman "nice and accurate graft-breakdowns" as much as they want ...



... the patient simply doesn't know how much of these grafts (aka "more hair per graft"), which they showed him with nice "graft-breakdowns" before implantation, will SURVIVE at all! That means, they can SHOW a patient a nice number of e.g. lots of 3-hair grafts, sure, but how many of these 3-hair grafts, which they showed a patient via a "graft breakdown" produced indeed 3-hair grafts (or more) in the recipient?

That has always been, and still is, the "dirty secret" in the hair transplant industry! But read the reasons for this problem straight from the experts ...

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http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/resources/guide-to-hair-restoration/chapter-8-follicular-unit-transplantation/

Snippet ...
Maximizing Growth

The follicular unit is a physiologic entity, rather than just an anatomic one. It is more than a tiny bundle of hair. It is a living structure, complete with nerves, blood vessels and a protective collagen sheath. When follicular units are transplanted intact, the surrounding tissue serves to protect them from drying and from mechanical injury during the placing process [as well as EXTRACTION PROCESS!]. It has been observed that when hair grafts were obtained by breaking up the naturally occurring follicular units, their growth was less than when the follicular units were kept intact. Keeping the structure whole, will increase the chance that all of the hair in the follicular unit will grow.
***************************

A "more hair per graft" procedure/hair transplant including a nice "graft breakdown" for the patient - doesn't really help a patient! They can transplant multi-hair-grafts as much as they want and they can show a patient nice graft-breakdowns as much as they want - it simply doesn't help a patient, because the patient, as well as the doc himself, who performed the procedure, is practically UNABLE to verify any shown and given "graft-breakdown" in terms of an accurate examined "YIELD-review procedure". Everything they do after 9-12 month is a "looking procedure", namely, whether or not any hair grew at all and "how much" hair - period, that's it. The patient simply doesn't know how much of the nicely shown and transplanted 3-hair or 4-hair grafts survived at all or whether or not the produced 3-hair or 4-hair grafts again. An uncertain and rather BIG number of these multis produce a rather lower number of hairs per graft. In simple words - the patient ended finally up with the majority of 1-hair and or 2-hair grafts in the recipient. Therefore, most clinics try to "camouflage" these FACTS, and simply transplant as much grafts as they can so that still a certain number of growing grafts and hair will still provide the patient some measure of "satisfaction".

And there is another BIG problem with "more hair per graft":


More hair per graft simply doesn't help a patient, when the patient simply doesn't have "more hair per graft" in his donor area ...

***************************************
Patient 1:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/album.php?albumid=465

Donor density of ~ 96-104 FU/cm2

1499 FUE extractions

* 674 single hair FU
* 825 double hair FU

Extraction performed with a 0,95 mm FUE punch
***************************************
Patient 2:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?p=91153#post91153

Occipital donor density of ~ 80-90 FU/cm2

3112 FUE extractions within 2 days

* 735 single hair FU
* 2106 double hair FU
* 271 triple hair FU

Extraction performed with a 0,9 mm FUE punch
***************************************
Discussion
Patient 1 is a normal young and healthy patient with an extraordinarily high donor density. Why just 1-hair and 2-hair grafts? And why didn’t he extract at least more 2-hair grafts instead of so many 1-hair grafts with a 0.95 punch from a patient with such a great and virgin donor density?

Patient 2 is also a normal young, healthy and virgin patient with a pretty good donor density.
Why just 271 triple grafts? What happens if this patient needs more than 1 procedure?
Is Dr. Feriduni or any other doctor still able to extract again 271 triple hair grafts with a 0.9 mm punch from this patients’ donor area?

For both patients: Would it make sense to count, to know and to provide these patients the extraction data? Actually, I think YES, because in such a case we would know why a guy like you is crying like a baby.

In such cases, I think it would be FAR more wisely, to do HST, try to extract the best grafts in the 1st procedure, let the donor area regenerate and do a 2nd procedure - right?
The only difference would be only 9-12 month away to reach the same goal as with just 1 normal FUE procedure - and NO LONG LASTING REDNESS!
**************************

pffffffft ... "HASCI seems to transplant way less hair than with a regular FUE" yeah, sure "more hair per graft" is important ...sure ...

Anyway, ARASHI, could you please be so kind and tell "the people" (please not me!) who still read your SHIT, why you (as well as the idiot KRUGER on haarweb.nl) don't buy a nicely "more hair per grafts" procedure in another clinic ? Why don't you buy one??

[gc83uk]

It's just extremely disappointing. There we were, thinking Gho had a cure. It now seems it most probably isn't. We can focus on Mwamba but that would be like believing in Nigams and that's even harder to do My best bet always has been Mousseigne. They showed us incredible good documentation. They were extremely fair, never made bold claims that they couldn't support with evidence. However they've been dead silent for months now .. It just seems this whole theory on donor regeneration might just not work at all. And that's just depressing.

I tried to tell you a couple of days ago I've got a load of emails from Nigam on a new patient. Do you want me to forward them to you?

I've not opened them because I just can't be bothered at the moment. That doesn't mean I don't care, just felt really drowsey and tired all week tbh.

[Arashi]

I tried to tell you a couple of days ago I've got a load of emails from Nigam on a new patient. Do you want me to forward them to you?

I've not opened them because I just can't be bothered at the moment. That doesn't mean I don't care, just felt really drowsey and tired all week tbh.

Nigams will start soon with his NW7 -> NW1 conversion. I think as of monday. I'm certainly going to watch that ! So let's focus on that.

[Arashi]

Haha and now Ironman is trying to make a case why it doesn't matter that you get only half the hair with HASCI. Nice one IM ! I hope your happy with your thin recipient !

[gc83uk]

Nigams will start soon with his NW7 -> NW1 conversion. I think as of monday. I'm certainly going to watch that ! So let's focus on that.

Well I think that's what it's about. It was me that asked him to do it if you remember.