Debunking HASCI´s regeneration claim - an open letter.

[534623]

My goal is not 'to debunk hasci'. My goal is to seek the truth.

Oh, really? All of a sudden?

Most guys (including you) could have had all the following information etc a year ago already. But you were too much busy with calling me multiple times “Nazi Schweinhund” especially in the 1st “The Ironman Procedure” thread - among many other nice things you did. But that not enough, you even forced Winston to ban me (almost), what finally makes providing information on these forums not really easy on one hand and, of course, “unwilling to share something at all” on the other hand.

Nevertheless, here are your beloved “mapped photos” from my 1st HST…

…which should provide what you want to find out.

FULL SIZE – Left ear side (section 1):

http://s14.directupload.net/images/131222/54tg8fej.jpg

FULL SIZE – Occiput (section 2):

http://s1.directupload.net/images/131222/45e54p7d.jpg

FULL SIZE – Right ear side (section 3):

http://s1.directupload.net/images/131222/ke2echh3.jpg

As you will see, the photos are sectioned already with light blue lines. So all you (or any other guy) have to do is simply making a counting (e.g. make tiny dots into every hole etc) of each and every extraction site/hole within every section: section 1 left ear side / section 2 occiput / section 3 right ear side.

You can see practically each and every extraction site in these zoomable FULL SIZE photos (see URL’s/links above). And yeah, the point is finally, to get an accurate number about the failed extractions they had, at least, in my case to get finally my 1400 HST grafts from my 1st HST.

@JJJJrS – are you (still) there?

I did an analysis for IM's procedure last year. Unfortunately, FileDen is gone now so the pictures are no longer online.

Without taking into account transections or failed extractions, around 70% of the extraction points regrew hair. He seemed to support my findings. Of course, the actual "regeneration rate" will be much lower in practice.

You can read more about it here.

If that were the case, those would be incredible results, especially combined with the scarless aspect.

Any net gain of hair is enormous. You can always work on the technical issues to improve consistency.

I think it's frustrating though, that we still have no concrete answers and HASCI still behaves so secretive about their procedure, even to the same patients that invested a lot, both financially and emotionally, to get a procedure done.

I hope you stored your IM analysis on your pc, because fileden, as you know, is gone.
IF you’re still interested about the ACCURATE regeneration rate and also about what exactly regenerated…

Analysis area shaved 1 year later:

http://s1.directupload.net/images/131222/2ruum6tf.jpg

http://s1.directupload.net/images/131222/fkanri2b.jpg

…feel free to find it out!

Simply choose the other photo (Day-2 after 2nd HST) as comparison; in case you have any doubts (“Is it a 1-hair or 2-hair graft?”) about some regenerated extraction sites. If you still have any troubles with some extraction sites, please let me know! I have lots of other close-up photos from this area (Day-0 photos), to find accurate answers finally.

Anyways, thereafter we would have at least 2 very very well and detailed analyzed reports of at least 2 similar (Caucasian) HST cases (gc + IM …which “work under 1 hat” lol) and, yeah, hopefully a better understanding about the “net gain” (hair multiplication) from all these procedures.

[Arashi]

calling me multiple times “Nazi Schweinhund” especially in the 1st “The Ironman Procedure” thread - among many other nice things you did.

That was not nice of me to do ! And almost got me banned (and rightfully so). But let's not forget you weren't exactly a saint either, no need to quote all the stuff you threw at me. Anyway, we've had all of that, no need to get back into that, the forum is way more strictly moderated now and I like that: less bickering, more focus on discussions.

Yes, I think analyzing your case would be interesting and helpful for everybody. But without taking recipient into account, we'll still be in the dark. I mean, for Gaz I calculated regrowth to be in that 0-38% range. And regardless if you agree on that number, it will always be in a 0-x% range unless we look at recipient too.

That's why I think a 50 graft test is not just the best, but also the only way to really get a good idea about the effectiveness of the procedure.

[Arashi]

Anyway, Ironman, we all want the same thing here man, we all want our hair back and we all want to find out the truth about HASCI. Let's be positive and work towards that common goal here.

I'll keep pressing hasci to do that 50 graft test, I think that's THE way to get to the bottom of this ...

[JJJJrS]

For example, 2-hair graft extractions:
With this, as just explained, you will end-up with mostly 1-2 hairs regenerating in the extraction wounds, mostly 1 hair (rather rare 2 hairs) in the recipient area.

Point 3) is also a part of "why, for example, Dr. Gho doesn't share the HST technique with other professionals in this field, like Dr. Cole", for instance. Because according to Dr. Gho "the HST technique isn't still there where guys like Dr. Cole would like to see it" (e.g. each and every extracted 2-hair HST graft produces again and almost for 100% 2-hairs again in the donor, as well as almost for 100% 2-hairs in the recipient.

I think this is a fair assessment and one that I've suspected for a while now. Initially, it didn't make sense to me why Dr. Gho was so unwilling to share the technique with any of his colleagues. At first I was willing to give him a break because of the sleazy characters you'll find in the hair transplant industry but at this point, it's clear that HST is still a big work in progress.

Anyway, Ironman, we all want the same thing here man, we all want our hair back and we all want to find out the truth about HASCI. Let's be positive and work towards that common goal here.

I'll keep pressing hasci to do that 50 graft test, I think that's THE way to get to the bottom of this ...

This is what it comes down to for me. Give HASCI all the time in the world for the test, I just want them to prove to everyone that there is hair multiplication occurring. I don't care what that number is, let's just see if it can be proven for the first time. If HASCI truly believes in their procedure, there's no reason to shy away from this.

[Arashi]

If HASCI truly believes in their procedure, there's no reason to shy away from this.

Agreed. I got an email back from Kristel, it says the decision is up to Gho himself and he's on holiday right now, will be back in 3 weeks, so I'll hear it then, which is ok, since I can't go january anyway, soonest probably end feb/begin march.

[caddarik79]

Agreed. I got an email back from Kristel, it says the decision is up to Gho himself and he's on holiday right now, will be back in 3 weeks, so I'll hear it then, which is ok, since I can't go january anyway, soonest probably end feb/begin march.

Did´nt hasci tell you they would provide new éléments to forum members? Any idea what?when?

[ss1980]

Arashi

Which area of scalp u plan to put these 50 grafts?
I dnt think hasci will accept ur offer but its worthed a try
Hacsi rrmoved 80% plus regeneration from website..honestly id be surprissed if theres 30% regeneration..far cry from 80%+

[hellouser]

Question!!!

If HASCI typically does about 1,600 grafts per procedure and gives approximately 35 grafts per square centimetre, this means they will cover a total area of 45cm/2;

1600 / 35 = 45

That's a LOT of space that 1,600 grafts can cover, its essentially of about 6.7cm x 6.7cm.

Is my thinking correct? Essentially, for hairline work, this is one of Dr. Gho's examples here with just over 1,300 grafts:

From this:



To this:

[Phatalis]

It's been 4+ months since my hst and I gotta say I was roughly around that pic. Maybe a bit less. I got 1400 grafts. With that said I hope there is more growth because I'm greedy and with that said I'm ****ing beyond happy with my procedure. Brought back my hairline. With a tiny procedure now. I mean like 400 grafts tiny.. it'd be as if I never lost hair. Hopefully I don't lose more anytime soon or ever

[534623]

Question!!!

If HASCI typically does about 1,600 grafts per procedure and gives approximately 35 grafts per square centimetre, this means they will cover a total area of 45cm/2;

1600 / 35 = 45

That's a LOT of space that 1,600 grafts can cover, its essentially of about 6.7cm x 6.7cm.

Is my thinking correct?

Try to find it out ...

*FULL SIZE* for zooming in click here ...

What you can see in the photos above is the "status" 1 week after my 2nd HST. I got so far all in all 2926 HSTs into the front area (1st HST 1390, 2nd HST 1536) and the remaining 100 HSTs (I bought so far 3016 HSTs all in all) went experimental into one of my old strip scars to see how the HST's work in my scars.

Anyway, what you also can see in the photos above are 2 yellow encircled "islands"; that means, these 2 small areas remained (interestingly) completely AGA-unaffected since more then 10 years and show, in fact, my NATURAL front area density. That just as a hint ...
So ALL the other hairs you can see all around these 2 encircled "islands" are ALL implanted hairs.

And here is my so-called "plan":
In around 24-36 month, baldness WILL BE a thing of the past for me on one hand, the same or even a somewhat higher density as you can see it in the yellow encircled areas (see photos above), due to progressive and therefore also very safe increase of the density from one treatment to the next - and, of course, thereby always some "fine-tuning" of the hairline itself as well.

Donor?

My completely "virgin" donor (in the clinic) BEFORE having any HST's at all...

*FULL SIZE* for zooming in click here ...
And finally, 1 week AFTER having my 2nd HST:

*FULL SIZE* for zooming in click here ...

So far, I could still shave my head down to the bone. What you also can see in the donor-1-week-after photo, are some tiny crusts especially above/behind the ear region, which currently (Day-8) itch like crazy, because the regenerated follicles in the skin try to push out the already produced hair shafts. That means, in the after photo, the complete density isn't even still there...

[ccmethinning]

Question!!!

If HASCI typically does about 1,600 grafts per procedure and gives approximately 35 grafts per square centimetre, this means they will cover a total area of 45cm/2;

1600 / 35 = 45

That's a LOT of space that 1,600 grafts can cover, its essentially of about 6.7cm x 6.7cm.

Is my thinking correct? Essentially, for hairline work, this is one of Dr. Gho's examples here with just over 1,300 grafts:

From this:



To this:

Wow that is an awesome result.

[c5000]

So far, I could still shave my head down to the bone. What you also can see in the donor-1-week-after photo, are some tiny crusts especially above/behind the ear region, which currently (Day-8) itch like crazy, because the regenerated follicles in the skin try to push out the already produced hair shafts. That means, in the after photo, the complete density isn't even still there...

Did you find that these crusts in the donor fell off with hairs attached?

[534623]

Did you find that these crusts in the donor fell off with hairs attached?

In my case not really "a lot", but at least a few I noticed ...


Such grafts, when I make a closer examination, these are

1) mostly just accidental and superficial (</=1mm deep) cut off hairs.
That happens when they think that the hairs have the same direction deep in the skin as seen them superfacial - but wasn't the case finally.

2) simply unable to pull the grafts out from the dermis.

3) too many drills all at once (>50 or so) and didn't pull out a few;
In this case, the graft pops out of the hole a little it, starts immediately to shrink and/or to dry out and sheds finally.

4) Various combinations among 1)-3);

Anyway, as long as you can see a round/oval crust surrunding 1-3 hairs, custs, which look like tiny potato chips, such "grafts" are indeed grafts due to the HST drilling - and not any "shock loss" hairs.

[c5000]

In my case not really "a lot", but at least a few I noticed ...


Such grafts, when I make a closer examination, these are

1) mostly just accidental and superficial (</=1mm deep) cut off hairs.
That happens when they think that the hairs have the same direction deep in the skin as seen them superfacial - but wasn't the case finally.

2) simply unable to pull the grafts out from the dermis.

3) too many drills all at once (>50 or so) and didn't pull out a few;
In this case, the graft pops out of the hole a little it, starts immediately to shrink and/or to dry out and sheds finally.

4) Various combinations among 1)-3);

Anyway, as long as you can see a round/oval crust surrunding 1-3 hairs, custs, which look like tiny potato chips, such "grafts" are indeed grafts due to the HST drilling - and not any "shock loss" hairs.

It's good to hear that you have experienced this to some degree as well. Will these donor hairs/grafts grow back?

So how many more procedures do you think you will need for a full head of hair?

[cocacola]

IM, where is ur hair from ur fut procedures?