Raising money for 50 graft HST test procedure

[gc83uk]

Video's and highres photo's proof nothing. At any point, results could be manipulated like this: Extract hairs (not grafts) from the monitored donor area. Hairs will always grow back: 100% regrowth. Take small skin parts to simulate extraction sites. Next implant those *hairs* (not the grafts). Then shoot video's, pictures, whatsmore. Then, after a few weeks have the guy come back, remove the hairs (they've shedded anyway), extract new grafts (the WHOLE graft) and implant them in recipient. Et voila, 100% growth in recipient and 100% regrowth in donor. And it's all really easy to do.

Not sure I agree with that.

He could indeed extract hairs from the monitored area and take small skin parts, however to make sure grafts weren't extracted in the future to dupe us, all he would need to do would be to take a full set of photographs of the entire donor area and again a further set to conclude the analysis a few months later. As long as the 1st set and the 2nd set match up, voila.

Anyway that is going too far IMO.

An even better way would be to simply record the procedure, so we can see the grafts being taken out, bisected and implanted. I guess the procedure would be maybe 45 mins of recording time at a rough guess.

[Arashi]

So in conclusion, the patient is key here. He is the only one that can truely verify no 'funny stuff' is going on. If we ask him to take photo's himself as well, then that's all we can do in terms of proof.

[Arashi]

I was even wrong. Letting someone oversee the procedure (or even videotaping the whole procedure) also adds NO extra proof AT ALL. Because to the person overlooking, it might all seem ok, he sees that the doctor extracts full grafts and plants them back. But if the patient is in on it, he could return the next day and have 50 grafts taken and planted back in donor.

So really, video, pictures and someone overlooking add NO extra proof at all. Hence I think the way we've set this up is the only correct way and nothing else can be done to improve the evidence. But do correct me if I'm wrong here

[Arashi]

Nice work Arashi!

I haven't kept up on all the new threads lately. There are so many, and I had to step away for a few weeks, but it warms my heart to catch up on this one.

And I'm sure GC's documentation did tack on to Dr. Gho's waiting list because I never considered Dr. Gho an option before I saw his photos, and I'm sure this test will do the same and then some.

And if you want to extend that waiting list even further, I would definitely video part or all of the procedure, and I think thats not necessarily because we don't trust Dr. Gho. I just think video makes everything more real. A video will go a lot further than photo evidence in terms of making people comfortable with what their about to go through, and it's a lot easier to shoot a video when the procedure is shorter, but I'm glad if we get just the photos anyway.

Thanks!

Thanks !

Regarding proof, I was just reading dr Nigam's thread on HS, he's going to start a similar experiment, tomorrow. As you might know I'm extremely sceptic towards Dr Nigam, because all the lying, cheating and photoshopping he has been done. So I was looking at his testcase from a very sceptical point of view, and came to this conclusion:

Video's and highres photo's proof nothing. At any point, results could be manipulated like this: Extract hairs (not grafts) from the monitored donor area. Hairs will always grow back: 100% regrowth. Take small skin parts to simulate extraction sites. Next implant those *hairs* (not the grafts). Then shoot video's, pictures, whatsmore. Then, after a few weeks have the guy come back, remove the hairs (they've shedded anyway), extract new grafts (the WHOLE graft) and implant them in recipient. Et voila, 100% growth in recipient and 100% regrowth in donor. And it's all really easy to do.

Hence, the very most important thing here is that we'll need to be able to trust the person this is being performed on and this can NOT be done on a staff member for example (like Dr Nigam is going to do).

Then, the idea of letting someone oversee the procedure. Yes this does add a little extra proof, cause this guy can see that grafts are actually being extracted instead of just hairs. HOWEVER what does it proof to the sceptic ? If he doesn't trust the person it's being tested on, why should he trust the guy overlooking the procedure ?

As a conclusion, I think the only thing we can really do is have the test perform on an external, not HASCI related, patient, like we're doing. Video's and photo's are NO good and letting someone oversee the procedure is of very limited use. Think about it.

[StinkySmurf]

Nice work Arashi!

I haven't kept up on all the new threads lately. There are so many, and I had to step away for a few weeks, but it warms my heart to catch up on this one.

And I'm sure GC's documentation did tack on to Dr. Gho's waiting list because I never considered Dr. Gho an option before I saw his photos, and I'm sure this test will do the same and then some.

And if you want to extend that waiting list even further, I would definitely video part or all of the procedure, and I think thats not necessarily because we don't trust Dr. Gho. I just think video makes everything more real. A video will go a lot further than photo evidence in terms of making people comfortable with what their about to go through, and it's a lot easier to shoot a video when the procedure is shorter, but I'm glad if we get just the photos anyway.

Thanks!

[aim4hair]

And imagine you were born like 10 years earlier, FUE was still horrible, HST didn't even exist (at least not in its current form) and all you really could do is get yourself a disfiguring huge scar on the back of your head and thin out your donor ...

having no scars is the main reason that made me go the HT route, even before considering donor regeneration. I almost went for FUE in 2011 because i had no idea about HST but getting white-dots scars is the only thing that stopped me specially since i look ok with buzz cut..
So yeah im glad i didnt have to worry about hairloss 10 years earlier

[Arashi]

And imagine you were born like 10 years earlier, FUE was still horrible, HST didn't even exist (at least not in its current form) and all you really could do is get yourself a disfiguring huge scar on the back of your head and thin out your donor ...

[Arashi]

Caddarick, I think your current result already looks quite good. It's a huge improvement from where you came, the guy in the upper pictures looks years older That photo you've posted is made under the most difficult circumstance: flash/full light and obviously no concealer (I don't think we'd need that stuff anyway). You're at 7 months, results will still improve a bit in the next 5 months.

Agreed that one more session should add enough density to pass the next few years and who knows what's available by 2017. And in the worst case scenario, if NOTHING new came out and not a single technique improved (I can't imagine, when you look at all current developments going on) then you can still just get another HST by then.

Future looks bright man

[hellouser]

One thing I thought of, maybe it's an idea to ask the moderator of the Dutch forums (www.haarweb.nl), to witness the whole procedure ? Until now he's been a Gho sceptic. But then again, I must admit I'd feel a bit weird to ask HASCI about it ...

excellent idea,

ask him if is able to be at the clinic on the day of procedure, it will take less than 2 hours of his time , not big ask.Im sure he is interested too.
HASCI wouldnt mind, if they mind id be worried

Terrible idea.

This is a medical procedure, this isnt a public space for visitors to randomly waltz in and out of. I'm 100% sure there are regulations for health, safety and privacy for what goes on in the operation room.

Secondly, what difference would it make? The results are in the patient, not the visitor.

[caddarik79]

caddarik79 , in your opinion how many procedure u need to get a suitable coverage

hello bald fighter (I like your name ;-)

Ok, in the very actual situation of my hair, I would say, another HST of 1800 should bring a good result.

I'm really in the same state of mind as Arashi, I am rather enthusiastic about future improvements in the field, (look, Gho, Nigam even if weirdo, Mousseigne in France)

I'm posting Mwamba updated also to push him in the direction, they have to shake their brains and realize we don't want rubbish FUE which does not fix anything.

So here is my strategy:

HST and Gho is the very best and only treatment that convince me at the moment... problem is the limitation and the 9 months etc etc... + a NW7 can have thinning even in the donor, soooo it's kind of a never ending nightmare.


BUT, on the other hand, when I see Gerard Joling case, I am positive...the dude started the treadmill in the 90's with horrible shitty technique of that time...got butchered to keep a bit of hairline in his 30's...but look, he got 3 HST on top of it, and you see the dude improving his appearance every year.

10-15 years later here we are, 30's years old people with slow or fast hair loss, but instead of shit treatment we have a very costy HST... it's already a much better start then Joling who is 52 and looks ok now!!!

means that we are in a situation where we can only wait other breaktrough treatments to come or improve by themselves, we enter the regeneration era, which makes the limitation much less a problem... the thing is, today it's very costy and still not convenient regarding the number of grafts you can have in one session...but it's far better than any other HT, better than propecia, better then minoxidil slavery, better than everything for now...

it can only improve if you are logical, but it's already not too bad.
My idea is to be strategic and in the same time enjoy my life with hair and not let myself being bald.

I call it the Benjamin Button adventure to make it easier to accept for myself... I have the impression that we, (our generation) will be the first to really reverse their Norwood...today it's very costy and not fast enough, but life goes on, up to you to decide if you start to improve your hair situation NOW, jump in the pool and be confident in other progress to come, or stay behind your computer to put doubts on everything and be 48 when you start your thing with your youth behind your back....

As Arashi said, I have the impression that two sessions in my case will leave me in peace for a lil while (3-4 years?) and then, we will be in 2017, sounds like this forum will be full of new discussion or empty because we will be cured!!!!

[caddarik79]

Thanks for the update, looks great bro !

thanks mate ;-)

[bald fighter]

caddarik79 , in your opinion how many procedure u need to get a suitable coverage

[Arashi]

@ Arashi, I think we will do things in parallel somehow!!!

You can have a look at my recipient 7 months post op on HS!!!
the future is bright and full of hair.

Thanks for the update, looks great bro !

[Arashi]

I can only agree, enough of your shitt* scepticism, they show good will, and you alwas push further!!! that's so stupid!!!

They do it for free, they will take professionnal photograph, Gho gave two interviews, official claims, didi, stop with your stupid ideas of being over demanding...
Wait another ten years and jump for something when you a really really really really really really really really really really really really really really sure and confident!!!!

What an asshole!!!! You got better than what you expected, now shut up and let's see what it shows!!!

What a pain in the ass, this didi!!!! some forum people are sick retarded people!!! sorry for all the others who are helpful, for a change!!!

Agreed, adding more and more demands makes no sense. Someone who simply does not WANT to believe the results are true, won't believe them anyway, whatever happens.

If our guy makes his own photo's too, anybody with common sense will see everything is real.

[caddarik79]

@ Arashi, I think we will do things in parallel somehow!!!

You can have a look at my recipient 7 months post op on HS!!!
the future is bright and full of hair.

If Nigam can push other stuffs, I take it!!!