2013

[Sogeking]

Am I the only one who thinks that Aderans with 60% repsonse rate which relies on genetic markers is not a hopeful treatment. I mean imagine if you are in those 40% unluckies, you can't get it and you end up with a scar of one square centimeter.
Got really disappointed hwen I've read that. Desmond seems really optimistic. On the other hand I am really pessimistic. I've started following the hairloss scene in December 2010. Only thing that changed in those 2 years is emergence of more possible potential treatments. I mean that is good but given the track record of how many of those have been proven to be ineffective or snake oils, I am really sceptical.

But hey I don't mind being wrong as long as I get my hair back...

[Troy]

PGD2 blockers (crth2 antagonists) seem to work to some extent, but they are not the dream treatment many were hoping...At least the guys experimenting with OC000459 don't report any miracle, just a shedding reduction, wich is a little subjective. Anyway too soon to take conclusions, and we may try other crth2 antagonists, like TM30089, wich also seem promising...

CB seem to be making it's way to the market, at least for acne treatment, but the vehicle that will be used probably wont do much in the scalp...The studys with iontophoresis were extremely promising, but this definitly is not a simple everyday use "vehicle".

ASC-J9 seem to give more side effects on people that experimented with it, also we don't know how safe degrading androgen receptors might be, or how the body will respond to that...Personaly I wouldn't go this route.

RU is still the most successfull experimental treatment so far IMO, although long term effects are uknown, the science behind it sugests it should be relatively safe in the concentrations people are using (but no one can say this for sure, we would need longer studys/trials).

I strongely believe that there are groups of independent people that sufer from MPB making some interesting advancements, and trying some promising things...If something better comes from this, it will probably be available for people interested in pioneer experimental treatments...

Right now I can only recommend for people that want to make part of this possible/probable evolution in experimental treatments to pay atention at HLH new group buys, that are bringing some interesting things to us. Over HLH there are some guys willing to help anyone that want to know/experiment.

[neversaynever]

I'm really pessimistic about CB ever being (legitimately) released, TBH. But then I'm pessimistic about anything getting released, knowing the history of MPB treatments....

Me too. So many drugs never got to phase 3, often for no aparent reason.

RU, CB, ASC and more that i cant think off. By 2017 i expect histogen and aderans to be with us, so these guys are wasting millions of $$ testing CB.

ASC looks so interesting. Studies show it degrades the androgen receptor (the dream!). Where is it?

The only new drugs that I think are worth some hope are the PGD2 blockers.

[Kirby_]

2017....

They're wasting their time. Its suprising that they dont make it a priority, it seems like its bottom of their list.

I'm really pessimistic about CB ever being (legitimately) released, TBH. But then I'm pessimistic about anything getting released, knowing the history of MPB treatments....

[neversaynever]

CB could have great potential for those that suffer from side effects with fin. It blocks conversion of Testosterone to DHT but if it gets absorbed in to the blood it immediately breaks down into inactive metabolites.

The problem is, it is set for release in 2017 which is so long away! By then most of us will be either just shaving our heads or have gone down the path of Histogen + Aderans to fix things up!

It's a shame that this drug could have been released by 2002 but pharmaceutical companies never saw its potentials!

-Big sigh-

2017....

They're wasting their time. Its suprising that they dont make it a priority, it seems like its bottom of their list.

[neversaynever]

I did not suggest that it does not work. I suggested that there is no good proof that it works, which is 100% true. What "proof" you can find is far from good. The safety has not been adequately proven either. Those who are truly doing a disservice are all those guys who don't even have MPB yet they are touting about how RU is working wonders for them. That is the true disservice.

If you want good proof that something works to treat MPB, you need to start with study participants who actually have MPB. I found lots of guys who are using RU. Not a single one of them actually has MPB.

Youre totally right. But i do have mpb and RU works. Shedding and the dreaded itch pretty much stopped within days. Safety, who knows. Nothing bad reported yet, in all these years. Except for the usual fin like sides from some people.

There will never be a study or trial with RU. Its dead.

I would drop RU in a heartbeat for a working PGd2 blocker. The lab rats need to hurry up.

I think RU being an 'experimental' drug, it might be unethical to reccomend it to others. I would say it works, but it is experimental, so you use it at your own risk.

[Tracy C]

Youre doing a great disservice to everyone interested in RU.

I did not suggest that it does not work. I suggested that there is no good proof that it works, which is 100% true. What "proof" you can find is far from good. The safety has not been adequately proven either. Those who are truly doing a disservice are all those guys who don't even have MPB yet they are touting about how RU is working wonders for them. That is the true disservice.

If you want good proof that something works to treat MPB, you need to start with study participants who actually have MPB. I found lots of guys who are using RU. Not a single one of them actually has MPB.

[hellouser]

If we could assume RU actually works and is safe to use, which we can't, that would be a reasonably good formula.

When I was trying to find reasonably good evidence for RU, I found a Youtube video of a young fella mixing up his own RU in bottle of propylene glycol. As I watched that video I was thinking to myself "Why doesn't he just mix it in with liquid Minoxidil?"... BTW, The young fella in that video does not even have MPB - and his before and after pics look exactly the same. There is absolutely no visible improvement - because he didn't even have MPB to begin with.

Mixing RU with PG isnt going to desolve it, its no wonder you dont believe it works even though IrishPride86 has well documented his use of RU with great results after mixing it with 95% alcohol.

I think you first need to learn how its applied before suggesting to the members of this forum that it doesnt work. Youre doing a great disservice to everyone interested in RU.

[Tracy C]

I wish we could have minox and RU in one topical.

If we could assume RU actually works and is safe to use, which we can't, that would be a reasonably good formula.

When I was trying to find reasonably good evidence for RU, I found a Youtube video of a young fella mixing up his own RU in bottle of propylene glycol. As I watched that video I was thinking to myself "Why doesn't he just mix it in with liquid Minoxidil?"... BTW, The young fella in that video does not even have MPB - and his before and after pics look exactly the same. There is absolutely no visible improvement - because he didn't even have MPB to begin with.

[Pate]

Pate, have you read that somewhere or is that a more or less guess? Only reason I ask is, I started using rogaine, then got on fin, and quit rogaine thinking they did the same thing, but since they dont, I went through a huge shed by quitting rogaine, even though I was on fin.

I know now they treat baldness in two clearly different ways so thats why I experienced the shedding that I did. But since its largely unknown why rogaine is effective (more or less) against MPB, maybe Bim treats it differently...i.e. another shed?

I dont mean to put yet another fear into peoples heads, but its worth a discussion I think. Even if there is a shed from switching treatments, if the new stuff is more effective, your shed will come back and hopefully thicker/healthier

No I haven't read it anywhere. Nobody knows for sure. But it's the most likely outcome. Like you said the shed between minox and fin is because they have completely different mechanisms of action. Minox lengthens the anagen phase, probably via some sort of PG stimulation. Bim should do the same but more strongly.

Likewise CB should inhibit androgens more strongly than fin.

You may still get a shed from going on CB or bim but only the same sort of shed someone who isn't on anything would get. It shouldn't happen like going from minox to fin where you lose the effects of one when you start the other.

But it's all speculation at this point.

[mmmcoffee]

Des, CB is an androgen antagonist, not a DHT inhibitor. Which is even better because it blocks all androgens in the follicle.

Mmmcoffee, there should be no shed going from fin to CB, and probably no big shed going from minox to bin. They are just more effective versions. So it's like upgrading, not starting from scratch or switching drug types.

Pate, have you read that somewhere or is that a more or less guess? Only reason I ask is, I started using rogaine, then got on fin, and quit rogaine thinking they did the same thing, but since they dont, I went through a huge shed by quitting rogaine, even though I was on fin.

I know now they treat baldness in two clearly different ways so thats why I experienced the shedding that I did. But since its largely unknown why rogaine is effective (more or less) against MPB, maybe Bim treats it differently...i.e. another shed?

I dont mean to put yet another fear into peoples heads, but its worth a discussion I think. Even if there is a shed from switching treatments, if the new stuff is more effective, your shed will come back and hopefully thicker/healthier

[Pate]

Des, CB is an androgen antagonist, not a DHT inhibitor. Which is even better because it blocks all androgens in the follicle.

Mmmcoffee, there should be no shed going from fin to CB, and probably no big shed going from minox to bin. They are just more effective versions. So it's like upgrading, not starting from scratch or switching drug types.

[thechamp]

So basically

So I will just have to use the big 3 for another 3 years unless a miracle cure comes out!

[mmmcoffee]

Say these new treatments come out and they are much more effective than rogaine/fin...you obviously will use them over fin/rogaine and probably quit that combo of products.

Do we have any idea if any of these new treatments will keep your results from fin/minox, instead of most likely the huge shed that follows quitting a hair loss product

at least that was my experience when I naively quit rogaine for 3 months...i dont want to go through that again if I quit rogaine/fin for a new treatment

[Desmond84]

realistically bim is the soonest treatment that will be ready!

I really doubt bimatoprost would be a major improvement from Minoxidil.

Either way you will end up having to block DHT some how anyways!