New Stemcell Treatment Photos... wow?

[Boldy]

@ DR nigams, what is the success rate you have archived so far , with the DS cells culture. DR Gho, promises 20% for patients with skin burns.

[Boldy]

"In skin undergoing androgenetic alopecia, there is the possibility
that the balance of migration is altered and incontinence of dermal sheath cells to the skin dermis leads to reduction in size of the dermal papilla,
and in turn to miniaturization of the follicle structure. If this leakage is
the result of signals from a dermal environment unique to this region of skin,
then addition of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable."
*************************

So, today, could you see any "rejuvenated vellus hairs" by Replicel, Aderans or Histogen?
Sorry, I couldn't see any ...
... because even if cell recruitment happened, any benefit would be just short-lived.

"AGA is not a stem cell problem!" - according to Prof. R. Paus and Dr. G. Cotsaelis.

there is for sure truth in your story, but that means, DR. Ghos doubeling would not work either over long term, right?

than how is it possible that it does work.....

It is, because regarding this paper from dr cotseralis:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lni0awqestf5x73/13%20Review%20of%20hair%20follicle%20dermal%20cells.pdf

If you get a Dermal sheeth from a donor area and impant it into the host (aga are), It will recreate a dermal papilla. So its posible what DR nigams is saying, regarding the studies.

The inductive property in dermal cells was elegantly shown by Oliver when he transposed DP
beneath the upper half of amputated vibrissa hair follicles [42]. He and his colleagues then
transplanted DP into afollicular skin and induced hair growth [43]. Cultured DP and DS cells,
as well as intact DS tissue are able to reconstitute a new functioning DP in vivo [11–13,44].
Reynolds et al. introduced DS from male human scalp into the forearm skin of a female donor
and induced growth of a terminal hair follicle with a DP containing a Y-chromosome indicating
the donor origin [12]. Although we cannot be sure of the target epithelial population in this
experiment, a subsequent study also showed trans-species induction of hair follicles by human
DP [45]. If validated, these studies are significant for their demonstration of DP inductive
abilities as well as the possible immune privilege state of the hair follicle championed by Paus
and coworkers [46].

Now whats the different between the DP cells in the AGA area and outside the AGA area?:

The role of the DP in diseases of skin and hair is not known, but some have speculated that
androgenetic alopecia, which is characterized by miniaturized hair follicles and shortening of
anagen phase in a defined pattern, may be due to the effect of testosterone and
dihydrotestosterone acting on androgen receptors in the DP and causing changes in
Yang and Cotsarelis Page 7
J Dermatol Sci. Author manuscript; available in PMC 2011 January 1.
NIH-PA Author Manuscript NIH-PA Author Manuscript NIH-PA Author Manuscripttranscription of genes such as TGF-β and IGF-1 [65–67]. Androgens may also drive the DP to
secret inhibitory autocrine factors [68]. Bahta et al. cultured DP cell from balding and nonbalding scalp and found that balding DP cells showed characteristics of senescence including
loss of proliferation capacity, change of morphology and expression of senescence-related
markers and oxidative stress markers such as p16
INK4a
/pRb, heat shock protein-27 [69]. One
recent study showed androgen regulated Wnt signaling in DP cells again suggesting their
involvement in the disease process of AGA [66].

With other words, Culturing, or transplanting the Dermal sheeth or dermal papilla cells, would lead to an immortal hairfolicle, since it can't destroy it self.


I can fully imagine that you guys are sceptic (you have your reasons for that Pictures etc that probably are not true on his site),But I rather stay Objective and focus on the facts/ studies that are proven to work in practice (Gho), and the papers regarding the dp and ds cells.



the problem with the Dermal papilla cells in the AGA area is that the are affected by DHT, which unfortunatley lead in to shutdown important pathways, like wnt, igf, shh bmps etc. Its a chain reaction of processes. apoptosis + catagen. Indeed the stemcels are perfectly intact in the AGA area, but they miss cd200+cd34+ progenitor cells. (explainable because of the chain reaction). This is good that the stemcells are still intact, since we now only have to implant or inject DP/ ds cells that are not affected by DHT), and an immortal hairfolicle could develop.

aderansresearch has created and tweaked the DP culture process in, and now seem to achieve 70% success rate, which is very promising!.

http://www.aderansresearch.com/

Regarding what I understand from nigams site, is that they culture the cells in the Dermal sheeth, and bulge, and then inject them into the scalp. If this is done right, healthy DP cells/ follicles could develop.



BTW guys, I'm Not supporting anyone here, Just focussing on the theory they seem to use.. On paper it seem to fits (so far)

The Dp/Ds culture thing got my interest lately, since I know its the only way that will give me my old nw0 back.

For your information, I'm GansterBoy on hairlosshelp.

[gc83uk]

We will either have an announcement of Phase 3 this year or we won't. It's possible the effects are permanent, and it's possible the effects are only temporary. We don't know that for certain either way.

Smurf one thing is for sure, your definitely not wrong. lol

[StinkySmurf]

How do YOU know that "theres no proof..of anything" ?

Contrary to you, I posted not just 1 proof - I posted multiple LIVING proofs:

Aderans, Histogen, Replicel - they have definitely proven with all their photos and presentations so far, that "injecting stuff" is just "postponing the inevitable" - IF at all; and even "postponing something for an uncertain time", would be just the best-case scenario (under ideal conditions, as with Fin/Minox or crap whatever), not THE solution!

We will either have an announcement of Phase 3 this year or we won't. It's possible the effects are permanent, and it's possible the effects are only temporary. We don't know that for certain either way.

What we do know is they won't enter phase 3 with a product they can't sell.

[neversaynever]

How do YOU know that "theres no proof..of anything" ?

Contrary to you, I posted not just 1 proof - I posted multiple LIVING proofs:

Aderans, Histogen, Replicel - they have definitely proven with all their photos and presentations so far, that "injecting stuff" is just "postponing the inevitable" - IF at all; and even "postponing something for an uncertain time", would be just the best-case scenario (under ideal conditions, as with Fin/Minox or crap whatever), not THE solution!

I agree. Nothing will give THE solution. Im hoping for something that can replace minox and maybe fin. Its obvious aderans, replicel, histogen dont have THE solution.

And yes, theres no proof of anything. I think we are missing at least one big factor in the balding process, possibly from the dermis. And so far, the guys in whites coats havent found that missing link, so theres no proof.

I think people should stop thinking about THE solution, and just be open to a next gen treatment that will be far better than minox (i hope)

[534623]

But as with everything in this industry, theres no proof..of anything.

How do YOU know that "theres no proof..of anything" ?

Contrary to you, I posted not just 1 proof - I posted multiple LIVING proofs:

Aderans, Histogen, Replicel - they have definitely proven with all their photos and presentations so far, that "injecting stuff" is just "postponing the inevitable" - IF at all; and even "postponing something for an uncertain time", would be just the best-case scenario (under ideal conditions, as with Fin/Minox or crap whatever), not THE solution!

[neversaynever]

Dr Nigam, why when you do the doubling technique, do you inject progenitor cells? Why not just use the stem cells already in the follicle, convert them to progenitor cells, and reinplant?

[neversaynever]

Right, and that's the reason why Colin Jahoda published the following in 2003 (concerning the Replicel approach):
*************************

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602054a.html

"In skin undergoing androgenetic alopecia, there is the possibility
that the balance of migration is altered and incontinence of dermal sheath cells to the skin dermis leads to reduction in size of the dermal papilla,
and in turn to miniaturization of the follicle structure. If this leakage is
the result of signals from a dermal environment unique to this region of skin,
then addition of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable."
*************************

So, today, could you see any "rejuvenated vellus hairs" by Replicel, Aderans or Histogen?
Sorry, I couldn't see any ...
... because even if cell recruitment happened, any benefit would be just short-lived.

"AGA is not a stem cell problem!" - according to Prof. R. Paus and Dr. G. Cotsaelis.

"signals from a dermal environment" - i think this might be true. But no evidence yet to back it.

"addition of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable"

"AGA is not a stem cell problem!" - but tricking those stem cells into growing hair might become the next generation of treatments.

But as with everything in this industry, theres no proof..of anything.

As for Nigams doubling technique, I'm very curious. Ive been thinking for a long time why someone doesnt experiment with this in vitro.

Nigam suggested 4000 grafts from donor? Dr nigam, first prove you can do 100 grafts! the damage caused by extracting 4000 grafts might reduce donor regrowth, and then the patient has a problem!

[didi]

534623

'I also fail to understand why not go for total hair doubling implantation on the recipient(make 8000 grafts from 4000 grafts)and revert to NW3 or 4from NW7 ,Why worry so much about donor(as HM should be available in few years to come).
Why not have great recipient today itself to flaunt and move your fingers into your hair, instead of waiting for years to extract donor every year,with poor quality hair.
Can you please explain your understanding of partial FUE and partial longitudnal bisection of FU in vivo by blind technique...to enlighten me...'

Thats a downside of ghos hst, you can only do small sessions if you want regeneration

how can we be so sure HM will be avail in next few years,


'with poor quality hair', i didnt understand this part,

[534623]

http://www.nature.com/srep/index.html

Nature is very important scientific and accredited journal.

Right, and that's the reason why Colin Jahoda published the following in 2003 (concerning the Replicel approach):
*************************

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602054a.html

"In skin undergoing androgenetic alopecia, there is the possibility
that the balance of migration is altered and incontinence of dermal sheath cells to the skin dermis leads to reduction in size of the dermal papilla,
and in turn to miniaturization of the follicle structure. If this leakage is
the result of signals from a dermal environment unique to this region of skin,
then addition of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable."
*************************

So, today, could you see any "rejuvenated vellus hairs" by Replicel, Aderans or Histogen?
Sorry, I couldn't see any ...
... because even if cell recruitment happened, any benefit would be just short-lived.

"AGA is not a stem cell problem!" - according to Prof. R. Paus and Dr. G. Cotsaelis.

[One]

534623,
I also fail to understand why not go for total hair doubling implantation on the recipient(make 8000 grafts from 4000 grafts)and revert to NW3 or 4from NW7 ,Why worry so much about donor(as HM should be available in few years to come).

I'm sorry Nigam,d o you have cases of donor doubling? We are interested at this technique, not the other!

[drnigams]

ONE ,
there are two categories for me 1) biotechnology 2) cell biology.
I will have to check with them regarding the category to which, hair doubling and hair multiplication will belong to.
I do buy research papers from nature.

Doctor you should publish your research here:

http://www.nature.com/srep/index.html

Nature is very important scientific and accredited journal.

[drnigams]

534623,
I have just submitted 100% hair doubling on day 5(and will submit more case studies) with in vitro hair bisection(under magnification to avoid transection with blind longitudnal technique) with injection of progenitor stem cells,
The only difference is, i have access to progenitor cells to add to my doubling.
BTW,just have a look at this statement of dr gho from his paper..'In case of partial longitudnal FUE,where follicular stem cells remain at the donor site as well as in the partial extracted follicle,a donor site capable multiple hair transplantation should become possible.'(anyway we inject progenitor stemcells in both the bisected follicles and will shortly inject potent cultured DP cells in both the bisected follicles)
I also fail to understand why not go for total hair doubling implantation on the recipient(make 8000 grafts from 4000 grafts)and revert to NW3 or 4from NW7 ,Why worry so much about donor(as HM should be available in few years to come).
Why not have great recipient today itself to flaunt and move your fingers into your hair, instead of waiting for years to extract donor every year,with poor quality hair.
Can you please explain your understanding of partial FUE and partial longitudnal bisection of FU in vivo by blind technique...to enlighten me...

QUOTE=534623;98929]Actually, no.
This just proves that until today you had no clue how traditional "FUE" works at all.

By the way - if everything is so cool and easy,
why doesn't Dr. Bernstein offer "hair doubling" procedures ?[/QUOTE]

[One]

Doctor you should publish your research here:

http://www.nature.com/srep/index.html

Nature is very important scientific and accredited journal.

[clandestine]

If those pictures on the previous page are really yours, they have dramatically improved in quality.