Further Follicept civil conversation

[nameless]

These growthfactors have been along for quite a while. People tried all kinds of combo's, nothing worked. Yeah you keep saying that they did it wrong, it was unstable or somebody accidentally switched their bottle or what more excuses. Fact is that this is highly unlikely to work. Not 100% impossible maybe, I'll give you that, but highly unlikely. Which means I won't trust a guy at some company alone. I'd need way more proof. That was my whole point.

Follicles are not being given these growth factors often enough...that is why growth factors are not growing a lot of hair.

In the wild naturally ADSCs nourish follicles with these growth factors often, but so far these growth factors are being injected only once a month or even less frequently. That is the problem.

When we have these growth factors injected we are trying to make up for the growth factors that were lost when our ADSC count reduced. It's basic math. For example, if you produce 2 mls of growth factors with 100 ADSCs then you will only produce 1 ml of growth factors if you lose half of your growth factors. In aga our number of ADSCs reduce and therefore the growth factors produced by ADSCs also reduces. When we inject growth factors we are trying to do manually offset that loss of growth factors. The ADSCs are excreting those growth factors more often than once a month so once a month injections of these growth factors are insufficient.

[Hemo]

Still zero results? How surprising .

It's been 3 weeks and half of their subjects are beyond help IMO. I don't think follicept will work but still think it's too early to definitively say so. Wish they'd trial AAPE instead. And I understand Dr. Hsu's reasoning for pulse therapy, but it doesn't seem like he's very sure about how long each "pulse" should be.

[serenemoon]

Straight from Dr. Hsu...

"Steve Hsu here. I forgot to mention that during my conversation yesterday, "staythick" and I discovered that we have both struggled with autoimmune alopecia areata. We laughed for a good 10 minutes about losing our eyebrows and eyelashes even! As a physician, I say to my patients who are facing serious and often life-threatening disease, "I CAN'T imagine what you and your family and loved ones must be going through." I've never had metastatic cancer. How can I know? This time it's different. I HAVE experienced and continue to experience the psychological and emotional effects that nearly all of you have shared. I interviewed at Harvard for my residency with moth-eaten hair, wondering if I wouldn't be accepted because the interviewers thought I was dying of cancer. I didn't date until pretty late in my life because I was so self-conscious. And I am also at week 3 of Follicept, even though I don't know if I have AGA, for receding hairline and thinning on the vertex. I can fully understand what you are going through. Thanks for watching and commenting."

[Afghanwig]

All the haters need to watch this,

Why exactly ?

[serenemoon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XklcMnm5x3k

All the haters need to watch this,

[GSD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XklcMnm5x3k

the real trials starts 1.7

[bigentries]

You also called Pilox "dubious", etc. when vraf posted his honest results (which weren't even remotely impressive). Why would a "Scammer company" be posting pictures with very "vanilla" results... and in an amateur picture-style with toilets in the background? Especially when we've seen how good the Pilox photography is?


Simply to point out that you have just as BAD a track record at spotting scams as you do a GOOD track record. People should realize that you have wrongfully bashed companies before... and they should take everything you post with a grain of salt.

LOL. They were not impressive? I can find post from you were you said vrafs pics were impressive. Why did you changed your mind now? I remember you did the same crap with Chlorine and CG210

Seriously dude, you are the one with a horrible bad record, Arashi is like a saint to bald guys. You are the perfect mark for scammer. You get way too emotionally attached to anything that gives you any hope

Let Arashi do his magic. Why do you love to argue so much when all the scams that you have pushed just end up burning you? I think you should learn your lesson by now, you are a poison to every community you join

[Afghanwig]

Just saw the pictures on their website, lol, what a joke, they're shooting pictures in all angles, see that guy with his week1,2,3 pictures. What are we supposed to do with that ?

[Afghanwig]

Histogen works. Sure, not massive amounts of hair, but it was also one shot injection, not 12 doses.

I see no mention of Arvid Armani or any of his studies online, so I can't comment on that. IF the argument is that IGF-1 is present in lowest numbers, that means nothing. It may be more powerful than other growth factor present in much larger numbers, it may upregulate other growth factors which is perhaps why the other growth factors are much larger in number. I am not saying this is necessarily the case,but IGF-1 being the growth factor "least associated" doesn't mean that it is not the most powerful/most impactful. How is "association" defined by Arvid Armani? By numbers/percentage of growth factor present? By some other factor? That is the question here.

People trying it with dermarolling and needling means nothing. Did they use real IGF-1? Was it in a stable formulation? Those things matter. If one uses those anecdotal stories to say that IGF-1 does not work, then why shouldn't one use anecdotal stories of bodybuilders injecting IGF-1 and growing hair to say that IGF-1 does work?

Ok you win. This will work then.

[Arashi]

Histogen works. Sure, not massive amounts of hair, but it was also one shot injection, not 12 doses.

I see no mention of Arvid Armani or any of his studies online, so I can't comment on that. IF the argument is that IGF-1 is present in lowest numbers, that means nothing. It may be more powerful than other growth factor present in much larger numbers, it may upregulate other growth factors which is perhaps why the other growth factors are much larger in number. I am not saying this is necessarily the case,but IGF-1 being the growth factor "least associated" doesn't mean that it is not the most powerful/most impactful. How is "association" defined by Arvid Armani? By numbers/percentage of growth factor present? By some other factor? That is the question here.

People trying it with dermarolling and needling means nothing. Did they use real IGF-1? Was it in a stable formulation? Those things matter. If one uses those anecdotal stories to say that IGF-1 does not work, then why shouldn't one use anecdotal stories of bodybuilders injecting IGF-1 and growing hair to say that IGF-1 does work?

These growthfactors have been along for quite a while. People tried all kinds of combo's, nothing worked. Yeah you keep saying that they did it wrong, it was unstable or somebody accidentally switched their bottle or what more excuses. Fact is that this is highly unlikely to work. Not 100% impossible maybe, I'll give you that, but highly unlikely. Which means I won't trust a guy at some company alone. I'd need way more proof. That was my whole point.

[serenemoon]

Histogen injected, Arvid Armani concluded in 2011 that IGF-1 was the growth factor least associated with hairgrowth and then there are tons of people who tried it in combo with dermarolling/needling for example and some who even tried with real needles. Never any noteworthy results.

Histogen works. Sure, not massive amounts of hair, but it was also one shot injection, not 12 doses.

I see no mention of Arvid Armani or any of his studies online, so I can't comment on that. IF the argument is that IGF-1 is present in lowest numbers, that means nothing. It may be more powerful than other growth factor present in much larger numbers, it may upregulate other growth factors which is perhaps why the other growth factors are much larger in number. I am not saying this is necessarily the case,but IGF-1 being the growth factor "least associated" doesn't mean that it is not the most powerful/most impactful. How is "association" defined by Arvid Armani? By numbers/percentage of growth factor present? By some other factor? That is the question here.

People trying it with dermarolling and needling means nothing. Did they use real IGF-1? Was it in a stable formulation? Those things matter. If one uses those anecdotal stories to say that IGF-1 does not work, then why shouldn't one use anecdotal stories of bodybuilders injecting IGF-1 and growing hair to say that IGF-1 does work?

[Afghanwig]

I just checked, zero studies on IGF-1 directly being injected to the scalp.

Histogen injected, Arvid Armani concluded in 2011 that IGF-1 was the growth factor least associated with hairgrowth and then there are tons of people who tried it in combo with dermarolling/needling for example and some who even tried with real needles. Never any noteworthy results.

[serenemoon]

Doses only matter so much. If something is effective it most likely would show results on lower doses too. It never did.

I just checked, zero studies on IGF-1 directly being injected to the scalp.

[Afghanwig]

You do know the frequency is also really different, right? it is 12 doses for one month with Follicept, which has NEVER been tried before. And when on earth did a trial directly inject IGF-1 to the head? I wanna see this study. LOL.

Doses only matter so much. If something is effective it most likely would show results on lower doses too. It never did.

[Swooping]

Yeah because if we had seen results by now, you all would definitely not be accusing them of being a scam.

This will never be a viable potential treatment. Sorry to break your dreams.

Devon honestly I'll give you one sincere tip at least. Stop with these subjects. You need subjects who are suffering from telogen effluvium (TE). Women mostly have to cope with that. In theory your product has way way more potential in relation to the TE pathology. Read "Resting no more: re-defining telogen, the maintenance stage of the hair growth cycle (2014)"

http://s14.postimg.org/fqknab2tt/gffactors.jpg

I think you are smart enough to understand why it would have at least some theoretical merit to the pathology of TE. Especially as IGF-1 stimulates the AKT pathway. Or were you guys already going to do this?

Btw Devon why would I shame you? You are at the forefront of the mind of Dr. Hsu. He clearly lacks rational thought in my opinion. Furthermore he calls himself a expert in hair follicle biology. But if you are going to compare the fuzzy rat to be similar to the pathology of AGA then he is far from a expert. Or he lacks rational thought, it's that simple. Smart in textbooks, but clearly flying in the clouds. Anyway if I were you I would start looking for people who are suffering from TE, at least that gives you some chance to prove something.