Further Follicept civil conversation

[Justinian]

That's a study looking into the effects of PRP on AA patients, *not* on AGA patients. Further more it's a pilot study, not a controlled one. And then, PRP is different from administering growth factors directly and even more different from administering a single growth factor like IGF-1.

You're right, it's easy to confuse AA for androgenic alopecia. There are other studies showing it is effective too such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4134641/

[Afghanwig]

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/760709/

I know Greco is doing/did some studies with Italians. I'm not sure if it's the same people.

That's a study looking into the effects of PRP on AA patients, *not* on AGA patients. Further more it's a pilot study, not a controlled one. And then, PRP is different from administering growth factors directly and even more different from administering a single growth factor like IGF-1.

[Justinian]

You mean this study: http://grecomedicalgroup.com/eblast/...iavone-PRP.pdf where they judged results by the Jaeschke Mickey Mouse Scale ?

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/760709/

I know Greco is doing/did some studies with Italians. I'm not sure if it's the same people.

[hair4us2]

It's been 3 weeks and half of their subjects are beyond help IMO. I don't think follicept will work but still think it's too early to definitively say so. Wish they'd trial AAPE instead. And I understand Dr. Hsu's reasoning for pulse therapy, but it doesn't seem like he's very sure about how long each "pulse" should be.

3 weeks is a very short time to judge a hair regrowth treatment. Granted that Follicept gave people the wrong hope that they expected to "see positive results in a few weeks." https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...ht=#post205061

Most people who have tried a hair regrowth treatment know that hair really does take time to regrow, and that it is not going to happen in a "few weeks", if it happens at all!

I think you need to give them at least 6 months to decide if it has the potential to regrow hair.

You could blame Follicept for being extremely naive and pushing this unrealistic hair growth time frame, but I also think we ourselves collectively are also to blame because we want to believe these claims.

It is like someone who wants to lose 14 pounds of weight in 2 weeks: it us very unrealistic to achieve it in reality!

[Afghanwig]

I posted this before but Greco's PRP formula has IGF-1 in it and in studies it has shown 10-20% regrowth. That is via injection.

You mean this study: http://grecomedicalgroup.com/eblast/...iavone-PRP.pdf where they judged results by the Jaeschke Mickey Mouse Scale ?

[Justinian]

I posted this before but Greco's PRP formula has IGF-1 in it and in studies it has shown 10-20% regrowth. That is via injection.

[Afghanwig]

(your opinions are formulated merely on articles, forums, and publications.lol).

You do realize that's how most scientists formulate their opinions ? Apart from that, swooping is posting scientific articles, all you post are insults.

[hairisbeautiful]

Swooping, you clearly lack rational thought. Your first issue is you think you are educated on the matter, but in reality, sadly, and unfortunately you are not qualified enough to shoot down someone who probably has 2 more degrees than you. Your comments from the peanut gallery are quite entertaining. I honestly love to look through the forums and try to spot out hardos like you who need to FIO. Get a job in your field (trash man?) or try to get a masters and pursue learning about hairloss (your opinions are formulated merely on articles, forums, and publications.lol).

[Afghanwig]

I was just reading their thread on their site, man it's Pilox all over again, no wonder NeedhairASAP is bringing it up so much in this thread ... People who think they see a difference comparing day 0 to week 3, on photo's that are really impossible to conclude anything at all on ... Sigh.

[serenemoon]

These growthfactors have been along for quite a while. People tried all kinds of combo's, nothing worked. Yeah you keep saying that they did it wrong, it was unstable or somebody accidentally switched their bottle or what more excuses. Fact is that this is highly unlikely to work. Not 100% impossible maybe, I'll give you that, but highly unlikely. Which means I won't trust a guy at some company alone. I'd need way more proof. That was my whole point.

Histogen is a combo that has been tried. Histogen shows results, no? Maybe they are not mindblowing, but surely clinically significant and continued to grow hair..The truth is that IGF-1 IS very unstable. Truly. But I understand why you feel it is "highly unlikely." Competely get it. At least you are open to the possibility of it working somewhat. That is what matters. Are YOU open to believing StayThick's results, out of curiousity? Considering that you actually have seen the guy be active for such a long time..

[Afghanwig]

Sometimes you can just tell if a person is a con-artist or a scammer from the way they speak and carry themselves. Dr. Hsu is definitely neither one of those. He and Devon are legit. Now, will their product work or not....nobody knows at this point. But i'm grateful to have Dr Hsu on our side.

Yes. Scammers have a somewhat squeaky voice. Most of them have big ears and you can also spot a scammer by the weird angle in their noses. They have a certain walk, almost like they're shuffling. Luckily we see none of that in Dr Hsu.

[breakbot]

This will never be a viable potential treatment. Sorry to break your dreams.

Devon honestly I'll give you one sincere tip at least. Stop with these subjects. You need subjects who are suffering from telogen effluvium (TE). Women mostly have to cope with that. In theory your product has way way more potential in relation to the TE pathology. Read "Resting no more: re-defining telogen, the maintenance stage of the hair growth cycle (2014)"



I think you are smart enough to understand why it would have at least some theoretical merit to the pathology of TE. Especially as IGF-1 stimulates the AKT pathway. Or were you guys already going to do this?

Btw Devon why would I shame you? You are at the forefront of the mind of Dr. Hsu. He clearly lacks rational thought in my opinion. Furthermore he calls himself a expert in hair follicle biology. But if you are going to compare the fuzzy rat to be similar to the pathology of AGA then he is far from a expert. Or he lacks rational thought, it's that simple. Smart in textbooks, but clearly flying in the clouds. Anyway if I were you I would start looking for people who are suffering from TE, at least that gives you some chance to prove something.

i agree.
if a growth factor works it should be only on the hair cycle of the follicle and im sure they know it.

[just2hairs]

Sometimes you can just tell if a person is a con-artist or a scammer from the way they speak and carry themselves. Dr. Hsu is definitely neither one of those. He and Devon are legit. Now, will their product work or not....nobody knows at this point. But i'm grateful to have Dr Hsu on our side.

[Hemo]

You were so positive, what changed your mind ?

All I ever said was "Wait and see" because you and Arashi (assuming you're different people) wouldn't shut up about them being scammers. I still think they're legit and simply jumped the gun w/ the press release and such. I even advocated that this thread be locked until conclusive results are out.

[Afghanwig]

It's been 3 weeks and half of their subjects are beyond help IMO. I don't think follicept will work but still think it's too early to definitively say so. Wish they'd trial AAPE instead. And I understand Dr. Hsu's reasoning for pulse therapy, but it doesn't seem like he's very sure about how long each "pulse" should be.

You were so positive, what changed your mind ?