S-equol again

[cthulhu2]

The reason propecia causes sides though is the drop in DHT as the result of lowering the enzyme. Equol is just getting the same result a different way your still going to get the same sides because you have significantly less DHT. Its going to do the same thing as propecia except its less proven

Apprently you did not see Itch's post about this so I'll elaborate. 5 alpha reductase is not only responsible for dht production but production of several neurosteroids that are involved in sex drive and behavior. Finasteride has a very variable effect on the production of these neurosteroids, which is why some people are totally fine on the drug while others experience unpleasant sides. Equol is optimal because it does not inhibit 5 alpha reductase. Here is a reference study:
Prague Med Rep. 2009;110(3):222-30.

Finasteride treatment and neuroactive steroid formation.
Dusková M1, Hill M, Hanus M, Matousková M, Stárka L.
Author information
Abstract
Finasteride is the 5alpha-reductase inhibitor that received clinical approval for the treatment of human benign prostate hyperplasia and androgenetic alopecia. The 5alpha-reductase is enzyme responsible for the reduction of testosterone to dihydrostestosterone, progesterone to dihydroprogesterone and deoxycorticosterone to dihydrodeoxycorticosterone, steroids modulating the action of gamma-aminobutyric acid on GABA receptors. These neuroactive steroids possess anticonvulsant, antidepressant and anxiolytic effects. The objective of the study was to determine the effect of finasteride therapy on a broad steroid spectrum in men with benign prostate hyperplasia. A group of 20 men with benign prostate hyperplasia was involved in the present study. Finasteride in the daily dose of 5 mg/day was administrated for 4 months. In all individuals, their hormonal profile of steroid hormones was determined before and after 4 months lasting finasteride treatment. Finasteride treatment resulted in a significant decrease all alpha-reduced and increase of most 5beta-reduced metabolites of testosterone and progesterone as well as in an increase of 7alpha-hydoxyderivatives, which are known as neuroactive steroids acting by modulation of GABAA and NMAD receptors in the brain. In the course of finasteride treatment the decrease of the concentration of circulating steroids with known inhibitory activity on GABA-ergic excitation in the brain is very probably an important factors contributing to the development of the symptoms of depression seen in some isolated cases of finasteride administration.

[HARIRI]

Just to make it short and clear. Has anyone experienced sexual sides like loss of libido and soft erections with taking S-EQUOL? Hope you guys give us a clearer picture.

[yayay]

Any safe source available to buy s-equol ?

[yayay]

After some researches I might have found something, contact me on hercules7491@hotmail.com

btw this is not a scam, I'm just a guy who thinks S-equol could be a great way to help hairloss.

[thechamp]

Apprently you did not see Itch's post about this so I'll elaborate. 5 alpha reductase is not only responsible for dht production but production of several neurosteroids that are involved in sex drive and behavior. Finasteride has a very variable effect on the production of these neurosteroids, which is why some people are totally fine on the drug while others experience unpleasant sides. Equol is optimal because it does not inhibit 5 alpha reductase. Here is a reference study:
Prague Med Rep. 2009;110(3):222-30.

Finasteride treatment and neuroactive steroid formation.
Dusková M1, Hill M, Hanus M, Matousková M, Stárka L.
Author information
Abstract
Finasteride is the 5alpha-reductase inhibitor that received clinical approval for the treatment of human benign prostate hyperplasia and androgenetic alopecia. The 5alpha-reductase is enzyme responsible for the reduction of testosterone to dihydrostestosterone, progesterone to dihydroprogesterone and deoxycorticosterone to dihydrodeoxycorticosterone, steroids modulating the action of gamma-aminobutyric acid on GABA receptors. These neuroactive steroids possess anticonvulsant, antidepressant and anxiolytic effects. The objective of the study was to determine the effect of finasteride therapy on a broad steroid spectrum in men with benign prostate hyperplasia. A group of 20 men with benign prostate hyperplasia was involved in the present study. Finasteride in the daily dose of 5 mg/day was administrated for 4 months. In all individuals, their hormonal profile of steroid hormones was determined before and after 4 months lasting finasteride treatment. Finasteride treatment resulted in a significant decrease all alpha-reduced and increase of most 5beta-reduced metabolites of testosterone and progesterone as well as in an increase of 7alpha-hydoxyderivatives, which are known as neuroactive steroids acting by modulation of GABAA and NMAD receptors in the brain. In the course of finasteride treatment the decrease of the concentration of circulating steroids with known inhibitory activity on GABA-ergic excitation in the brain is very probably an important factors contributing to the development of the symptoms of depression seen in some isolated cases of finasteride administration.

Will I still gain weight in a eqoul?

[cthulhu2]

.

[thechamp]

.

I gain weight with fin so I wonder if I I'll gain weight with eqoul

[cthulhu2]

I gain weight with fin so I wonder if I I'll gain weight with eqoul

At this point, it doesn't really make sense to take equol based on the DHT findings of Adaku, unless you plan on spending $900 a month or whatever it costs to take 100+mg a day of Equol from Nature's Sunshine.

[PinotQ]

At this point, it doesn't really make sense to take equol based on the DHT findings of Adaku, unless you plan on spending $900 a month or whatever it costs to take 100+mg a day of Equol from Nature's Sunshine.

cthulhu2, I'm not sure what to make of it all but I agree that $900 a month is far out of the ballpark. I have been doubling back on the research when I have time and when you look at Adaku's and my test results, it's not apparent that equol is doing anything, even at my dose. I wasn't really expecting my total dht to show a drop when I took my test given it's mechanism of action so I was pleasantly surprised to find that it I showed a 75% drop from the low adult male range. But after looking at some of the equol studies, they clearly show that equol causes a drop in total serum dht.....and at low dosages (I believe 3mg per day was mentioned in one of them). Adaku's test showed such a small drop that, given natural fluctuations, cannot definitively be attributed to equol. Given that I am on finasteride, my total dht results are more opaque. I initially assumed a 75% drop from the low end of the range was confirmation of at least some type of positive result b/c when I looked at a number of finasteride trials, the highest drop I saw was a 72% drop and I assumed that was a drop from somewhere near the average normal range. But I have since seen a finasteride study that quantified results, not by percentage, but by average ng/dl in the blood stream. And the average was 9.6 ng/dl. Effectively, this would mean that my total DHt results show no more of a change attributable to equol than Aaku's. Still there is the issue of Free DHT where the research has shown that equol does the brunt of its work. With respect to Free DHT, I assumed that my low test result was due to equol but that too is unclear. While finasteride lowers total DHT rather than binding to Free DHT, that doesn't mean (as pointed out above by Gari Baldi) that finasteride doesn't lower Free DHT b/c if SHBG remains at normal levels, SHBG could be binding to more of the Free DHT as a percentage of total DHT. Since this is all just a group experiment, I have decided that I am going off of equol for 1 to 2 weeks and then I will retest my Total and Free DHT and my SHGB. I will remain on finasteride but this will definitely give me a good idea of what additional effect, if any, equol may be having since I have a good baseline. This won't of course tell anything about dosage with respect to those not on finasteride. If equol, is having an effect, I don't believe being off for 1 to 2 weeks will erase anything benefits that may have started to accrue over the last 5 months.

[swissTemplez]

We would need a bulk supplier and they in turn need a pretty advanced (expensive) lab to produce it.

I don't have high hopes here. It would be awesome though since EVERYONE would benefit from this, even people on fin/dut would get additional benefit.

[PinotQ]

Disappointing news, my blood test results are work:

No Equol: DHT 44 ng/dL
48 MG Equol: DHT 41 ng/dL

Only a three ng/dL difference in total DHT. This would make sense with PinotQ's total DHT results, as the 144mg he was taking would reduce his levels by about ~10 ng/dL, putting his finasteride-only levels around ~17 ng/dL. PinotQ, any thoughts on the results?

I'm thinking that the equol works, but it'd be prohibitively expensive. I'd think you'd need at least 250 mg daily to have an effect that'd come close to fin. That'd be just about $30/day, or about $900/month perpetually, which isn't worth it in my opinion.

Adaku, I will have been off of equol for 2 weeks on friday when I will take my second DHT test. I'm not expecting much of a change over baseline. But given your unexpected results (and what I anticipate will be mine), I sent an email to one of the foremost equol experts that has authored many of the studies and is listed on some of the patents. He sent me one of his most recent studies regarding equol and BHP. One of the questions I asked was whether a DHT blood test would be capable of measuring what effect equol has on serum DHT. He did not answer that directly but he sent me a recent study showing a 21% reduction in 5α-DHT was observed in the severely symptomatic group and here was no change in the moderately symptomatic group. The study says that the reasons the moderately symptomatic men did not display any
alterations in 5α-DHT levels during the intervention were unknown. He also said that the balance of total vs. free (T and/or DHT) represents a mechanism that may or may not change with equol dosing. FYI He did not recommend mega dosing for hair loss noting that taking such high doses may not be the best route to reach scalp follicles...........and suggesting that a topical application might be more effective.

[bananana]

Adaku, I will have been off of equol for 2 weeks on friday when I will take my second DHT test. I'm not expecting much of a change over baseline. But given your unexpected results (and what I anticipate will be mine), I sent an email to one of the foremost equol experts that has authored many of the studies and is listed on some of the patents. He sent me one of his most recent studies regarding equol and BHP. One of the questions I asked was whether a DHT blood test would be capable of measuring what effect equol has on serum DHT. He did not answer that directly but he sent me a recent study showing a 21% reduction in 5α-DHT was observed in the severely symptomatic group and here was no change in the moderately symptomatic group. The study says that the reasons the moderately symptomatic men did not display any
alterations in 5α-DHT levels during the intervention were unknown. He also said that the balance of total vs. free (T and/or DHT) represents a mechanism that may or may not change with equol dosing. FYI He did not recommend mega dosing for hair loss noting that taking such high doses may not be the best route to reach scalp follicles...........and suggesting that a topical application might be more effective.

I'm ordering 100 grams today from a lab (they sent me a certificate) in china. I've got the high precision scale (0.01 gram) and I'll be taking 0.5 grams daily for 200 days straight. I'll document the process with pics (if anything is about to happen).

[NeedHairASAP]

I'm ordering 100 grams today from a lab (they sent me a certificate) in china. I've got the high precision scale (0.01 gram) and I'll be taking 0.5 grams daily for 200 days straight. I'll document the process with pics (if anything is about to happen).

maybe you could use that vesapro vehicle to make a cream?

[thechamp]

So who's going to try topical s eqoul can we just Pop a few in minoxdill ?

[bananana]

maybe you could use that vesapro vehicle to make a cream?

Possible.
But right now I really want to get started with this. It's on its way from china as we speak.
I think 0.5 grams daily should show results, hopefully in 3 months.. I can make cream or sth with rest of it, or rather that electro device that puts it under skin.
Applying a creme every night is really pain in the 4ss, I'm on a managing position in the company and in contact with people all day long.