S-equol again

[FearTheLoss]

excited to see your DHT results pinotq..

[ItchForTheCure]

Please keep us posted. I think the shedding is a great sign and I find this very useful. I will do the same. Are you taking your equol 2 or 3 times per day?

I'm taking it 3 times per day. Good to see other people shedding on this stuff. It's quite depressing to see so much hair in the sink, but I guess the hair cycle is getting synchronized due to the sudden reduction in DHT?

[bananana]

Hi Guys (again).
I'll be ordering 100+ grams of equol shortly. Chinese company sent me a scan of Certificate of Analysis showing all green lights,
but of course - I need to run it by some independent lab (hard to find, unfortunately).

Another question - how do you take the powder? They say it's safe mixing it with water and drinking, but is there a more efficient way?
How do I know what amount will be absorbed by the body?
Or should I just take a shitload of it (like 0.5-1 grams daily) and hope at least 0.01 pushes through?

Your opinions?

Tnx

Anybody?
Tnx

[PinotQ]

I received the results of my total DHT test back today. My serum level is 7.6 ng/dl and flagged as low. The report says the normal range for an adult male is between 30 and 85.

My SHGB was 35.3 nmol/L with the normal range for an adult male between 19.3 and 76.4. I wanted to check my SHGB levels b/c Equol also binds to SHGB...........and SHGB is a good thing as it binds to DHT and testosterone. But my SHGB appears to be very normal.

I will post my Free DHT levels once I receive that test. Approximately 1% of DHT is typically the amount that circulates unbound according to this link: http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...erone_Free.pdf

So equol appears to be doing it's job as the research indicates that it would and the product appears to be the real deal. But keep in mind that I am taking 48 mg 3 times per day for a total of 144 mg per day. I have zero noticeable side effects except for fewer wrinkles around my eyes. It definitely has a positive effect on your skin.

Also, keep in mind that these results don't necessarily mean that this will have a positive impact on either maintaining or regrowing some hair. But I will let you know once I am confident enough to make a call one way or the other!

[balding1983]

I received the results of my total DHT test back today. My serum level is 7.6 ng/dl and flagged as low. The report says the normal range for an adult male is between 30 and 85.

My SHGB was 35.3 nmol/L with the normal range for an adult male between 19.3 and 76.4. I wanted to check my SHGB levels b/c Equol also binds to SHGB...........and SHGB is a good thing as it binds to DHT and testosterone. But my SHGB appears to be very normal.

I will post my Free DHT levels once I receive that test. Approximately 1% of DHT is typically the amount that circulates unbound according to this link: http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...erone_Free.pdf

So equol appears to be doing it's job as the research indicates that it would and the product appears to be the real deal. But keep in mind that I am taking 48 mg 3 times per day for a total of 144 mg per day. I have zero noticeable side effects except for fewer wrinkles around my eyes. It definitely has a positive effect on your skin.

Also, keep in mind that these results don't necessarily mean that this will have a positive impact on either maintaining or regrowing some hair. But I will let you know once I am confident enough to make a call one way or the other!

Hi,
That is very encouraging news indeed. However, I still I don't understand how the DHT levels will be reduced with equol. Are you taking Finasteride as well? By the way did you check your PSA level? Because if this is low then we know you are reducing the amount of DHT that is bioavailable to effect the prostate primarily and also our hair follicles.

I have a question though. Why are you taking so much a day?
You initially posted the possible dosing levels where we have to achieve a plasma level of approximately 100 nmol to achieve 100% binding of DHT. (https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...t=11378&page=2)

The half life of equol is roughly 8 hours. Theoritically, would we not be able to take for example 30 mg twice a day as the graph seems to suggest that the plasma levels remain above the required level for at least 12 hours.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/11/2037/F2.medium.gif

[cthulhu2]

I received the results of my total DHT test back today. My serum level is 7.6 ng/dl and flagged as low. The report says the normal range for an adult male is between 30 and 85.

My SHGB was 35.3 nmol/L with the normal range for an adult male between 19.3 and 76.4. I wanted to check my SHGB levels b/c Equol also binds to SHGB...........and SHGB is a good thing as it binds to DHT and testosterone. But my SHGB appears to be very normal.

I will post my Free DHT levels once I receive that test. Approximately 1% of DHT is typically the amount that circulates unbound according to this link: http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...erone_Free.pdf

So equol appears to be doing it's job as the research indicates that it would and the product appears to be the real deal. But keep in mind that I am taking 48 mg 3 times per day for a total of 144 mg per day. I have zero noticeable side effects except for fewer wrinkles around my eyes. It definitely has a positive effect on your skin.

Also, keep in mind that these results don't necessarily mean that this will have a positive impact on either maintaining or regrowing some hair. But I will let you know once I am confident enough to make a call one way or the other!

That's fantastic news! If Adaku's results come back the same we should without a doubt know Nature'sSunshine is legitimate. I think we can safely assume this is type II DHT that is being inhibited, since it makes up the vast majority of DHT.

[ItchForTheCure]

I received the results of my total DHT test back today. My serum level is 7.6 ng/dl and flagged as low. The report says the normal range for an adult male is between 30 and 85.

My SHGB was 35.3 nmol/L with the normal range for an adult male between 19.3 and 76.4. I wanted to check my SHGB levels b/c Equol also binds to SHGB...........and SHGB is a good thing as it binds to DHT and testosterone. But my SHGB appears to be very normal.

I will post my Free DHT levels once I receive that test. Approximately 1% of DHT is typically the amount that circulates unbound according to this link: http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...erone_Free.pdf

So equol appears to be doing it's job as the research indicates that it would and the product appears to be the real deal. But keep in mind that I am taking 48 mg 3 times per day for a total of 144 mg per day. I have zero noticeable side effects except for fewer wrinkles around my eyes. It definitely has a positive effect on your skin.

Also, keep in mind that these results don't necessarily mean that this will have a positive impact on either maintaining or regrowing some hair. But I will let you know once I am confident enough to make a call one way or the other!

Wow you just replicated the DHT reduction of Fin and Dut without any sides? That's impressive. I'm just wondering if taking 144mg is completely overkill or not. Didn't the patent call for .2mg to .5mg per 1kg of body weight per day?

Adaku what amount of equol are you taking daily? It'll be interesting to see the difference in DHT reduction.

I was pretty sure Nature's Sunshine equol was the real thing. I looked up the company's financials and they are publicly traded with a market cap in excess of 200million. No way they'll risk their business reputation on shoddy products.

[hairbackpls]

These news made me smile :'D hope it works.

[PinotQ]

Wow you just replicated the DHT reduction of Fin and Dut without any sides? That's impressive. I'm just wondering if taking 144mg is completely overkill or not. Didn't the patent call for .2mg to .5mg per 1kg of body weight per day?

Adaku what amount of equol are you taking daily? It'll be interesting to see the difference in DHT reduction.

I was pretty sure Nature's Sunshine equol was the real thing. I looked up the company's financials and they are publicly traded with a market cap in excess of 200million. No way they'll risk their business reputation on shoddy products.

The patent does call for a low end of .2mg and a high end of .5mg per kg of body weight so my dosage may well be overkill but I wanted to leave no room for doubt, especially given the fact that 10 times the high end is seen in natural equol producers with no side effects. For my body weight, to maintain a .5mg level in my bloodstream, I would need just over 44mg per dose. Given the 8 hour half life, that means that by mid-day, I am down to 22mg in my bloodstream. So I take 8 pills (48mg) 3 times per day. I created a spreadsheet and after 1 week of dosing at this level, the minimum in my bloodstream at any time is 48mg (or the patent high end). Just after any dose, the level shoots up to 96mg........8 hours later falling to 48mg just before the next dose.

Keep in mind, I am likely in a little different boat here than most of you. I have been using Finasteride for years and it no longer maintains. So my goal here is not just to reduce my DHT but to get it as close to zero as possible.........knowing that people lacking DHT do not continue to bald. This also means that my reduction to 7.6 isn't all equol as finasteride is also at work. But 7.6 is a 75% reduction from the minimum adult male range an 87% drop from the average and a 91% drop from the high adult male range. Also remember that my reduction is in total DHT. My reduction in free DHT is still unknown. Also note that finasteride reduces scalp DHT somewhat less than serum DHT. I have no way of knowing how much equol has reduced my scalp DHT. However, given that DHT is very active in the skin and scalp, this could be a big wild card.

[balding1983]

I see.
Well, we are both in the same position. Unfortunately, testing one's DHT (free or otherwise) levels while taking Finasteride won't be of much use. All we will prove is that Finasteride is working as it should to reduce the DHT levels. I don't equol in its self will reduce DHT levels:

http://www.biolreprod.org/content/70/4/1188.long

What we need is someone who isn't taking any meds to check their DHT and PSA before and after equol and document their progress with hair over at least 6 months.

Also I don't think we can assume the plasma level of equol is exactly 50% of the oral dose at 8 hours because it assumes 100% absorption. I don't think it is. I extrapolated the dosing from the graph I posted earlier.

Anyone taking equol on its own?

[Avaholic1921]

Hey guys, I have been interested in equol for awhile now and Have seen all the studies. I just wanted to give my experience. I have been taking the natures sunshine product for 5 months now. Unfortunately my financial situation has only allowed me to take the recommended dose of 2 pills per day(12mg).

Since my hairloss has been very slow, it's hard to say what kind of progress I have been getting. my hairline is NW 2-2.5 and the last few years it has started to diffuse thin all over the top. My girlfriend thinks it looks a little thicker and I have noticed those tiny vellus hairs in and around my hairline like I got when I took propecia for 6 months a few years ago.

I think I am going to up my dosage to 3 pills a day(18mg) for the next few months just to have a more constant supply in my bloodstream(if that's even enough). It doesn't feel like it's getting any worse so if it just maintains I will be happy. I am also using nizoral shampoo 1%

I will keep you updated if you want. thanks guys!

[FearTheLoss]

The patent does call for a low end of .2mg and a high end of .5mg per kg of body weight so my dosage may well be overkill but I wanted to leave no room for doubt, especially given the fact that 10 times the high end is seen in natural equol producers with no side effects. For my body weight, to maintain a .5mg level in my bloodstream, I would need just over 44mg per dose. Given the 8 hour half life, that means that by mid-day, I am down to 22mg in my bloodstream. So I take 8 pills (48mg) 3 times per day. I created a spreadsheet and after 1 week of dosing at this level, the minimum in my bloodstream at any time is 48mg (or the patent high end). Just after any dose, the level shoots up to 96mg........8 hours later falling to 48mg just before the next dose.

Keep in mind, I am likely in a little different boat here than most of you. I have been using Finasteride for years and it no longer maintains. So my goal here is not just to reduce my DHT but to get it as close to zero as possible.........knowing that people lacking DHT do not continue to bald. This also means that my reduction to 7.6 isn't all equol as finasteride is also at work. But 7.6 is a 75% reduction from the minimum adult male range an 87% drop from the average and a 91% drop from the high adult male range. Also remember that my reduction is in total DHT. My reduction in free DHT is still unknown. Also note that finasteride reduces scalp DHT somewhat less than serum DHT. I have no way of knowing how much equol has reduced my scalp DHT. However, given that DHT is very active in the skin and scalp, this could be a big wild card.

Okay, so your testing is rather useless for us as you're on finasteride.


We need someone to test before and after that isn't on any other meds that would have an effect on DHT.

[cthulhu2]

Okay, so your testing is rather useless for us as you're on finasteride.


We need someone to test before and after that isn't on any other meds that would have an effect on DHT.

That's right, I totally forgot pinot was on finasteride. Guess we'll have to rely more on the blood work from adaku since he is only on equol.

[balding1983]

Taking equol to 'completely' sequester ALL plasma DHT will be both impractical in terms of cost and efficacy. Furthermore, its not wise to block DHT completely. People seem to think its only role in the body is to make our prostate increase in size and cause MPB. Its mediates a significant portion of the things testosterone controls particularly in the Central Nervous System.

I'm interested in Equol because I need something to reduce the effect of the approximately 30% DHT that Finasteride doesn't block and the evidence is there it indeed does it. So, we don't need to take astronomically high doses of the stuff if we are taking Finasteride. My plan (if I can get a hold of it in Europe) is to use it has a means of reducing the dose of Finasteride to 0.5 mg a day.

[thechamp]

Do you guys think if I take equol will it Lower my serum dht?, because when I take fin I get rapid weight gain do you think the same thing will happen with equol ??