Going bald, and going back...

[Vanzzzz]

Here's a few questions to mull over:

1) A lot of people on this site say that hair loss does not affect a man's success with women. I know women who won't go out with men because they don't have enough hair. How many women do you know who won't go out with men because they have a full head of hair?

2) A lot of people say appearances don't matter and that it's shallow to worry about hair. So why do they all desperately follow the fashion of shaving their heads? It doesn't matter so why bother.... right?

3) They also say that baldness doesn't affect career prospects. But we know people don't elect bald Prime Ministers or Presidents. So why do they suddenly become more altruistic when they recruit?

I do not know enough to rebut point 1 and 2, and frankly, from what you posted about you getting married soon, I do not see what you have to worry about.

As for point 3, I have posted about how Goldman Sachs president is a NW7....

[KeepTheHair]

So?

You can't generalize like that.



...amazing logic, sir.

[Vanzzzz]

Why not? You can generalise and I cant?

Firstly, there was no definition of baldness. Is NW4 - 6 on a 60 year old considered bald? If yes, then look at Putin, ex-president of Russia. Also, there is Berlusconi, who had a hair transplant. Im pretty sure there are several examples of bald leaders, Im just too lazy to search for them.

I do not dispute that baldness will make a man look less attractive, and it will definitely affect your chances with the ladies. But there is really no point beating ourself up over it, since we are already doing the most we can. A negative attitude will not help you and may only serve to make you even less attractive when we already need all the help we can get.

[KeepTheHair]

So what are we arguing about.


What im saying is that, despite a few successful bald(term just refers to hair loss) guys....it still makes sense that people with hair will be more successful than those without. Sure you are not completely screwed and some will make it. But generally it is tougher.

I don't have to generalize. For every 1 guy that has a great deal of hair loss that succeeds easily with the ladies or whatever there would be plenty others that have a much harder time because of their hair loss. You use that 1 guy as an example. I don't have to since I have a ton of examples.

Verb 1. generalize - draw from specific cases for more general cases



I am not generalizing, you are.

[Vanzzzz]

I am not arguing about the attractiveness part, but rather the succeeding part. There are plenty of bald people who are highly successful.

I do not see why it make sense that people with hair will naturally be more successful. I may be naive, but unless you are an actor/model, as long as you do not look disfigured, I do not think people will really care about how you look.

Besides, how do you define success, there are also plenty of guys with hair that never make it to senior management....

[[mcr]]

I thought this matter had been settled. Fixed_by_35 is unfortunately right.

Having a trait that is perceived negatively will affect you negatively. Short people make less money than people who are taller. Bald people will also be negatively affected to a certain degree. Either due to the way they are perceived by others, or due to lower self-esteem. Doesn't matter. Hair loss sucks for a reason.

Take a bald man and give him hair. He will be happier, feel better about himself, be perceived more positively by others, etc.

If hair loss didn't matter, we wouldn't be here, putting our testicles on the line to save whatever hair we have left. We wouldn't be spending fortunes on HTs.

Yes, hair does matter, but in the absence of a cure, we must deal, the same way short people are out of luck. They just deal.

[StayStrongMen]

You can "just deal", or you can live life to the fullest.

You can depress yourself over studies that claim if your bald, short, or fat, that you suck, or you can become comfortable with who you are and become a stand-out in front of your peers.

I know this forum is a mix of newcomers looking for help/optimistic hair-loss sufferes/pessimistic hair-loss suffers. I guess the pessimestic ones will shrug off what say every now and then.

You'd be suprsised how many bald, short, or fat people that are confident individuals out there, that probably have never needed to turn to a forum for support.

^Not that asking for support is a bad thing, we all need a shoulder to lean on at some point, but you can cry your whole life about not looking like Brad Pitt, or you can be the life of the party, workplace, etc and have people want to be around you regardless of what you look like.

If there was not 1 bald CEO out there, then I would be worried, but there's plenty so all these studies about bald men struggling with their careers can go to hell. I think it has much more to due with how baldness has affected their personalities.

[[mcr]]

I am not advocating giving up on life. I am just looking at it from a scientific, statistical point of view. I am just stating facts. The average salary of someone who is 6'2" is higher than the average salary of someone who is 5'7". There was a study done that revealed this.

Your life is what you make of it. But generally, statistically, certain truths remain.

Denying facts doesn't help anybody.

[StayStrongMen]

I am not advocating giving up on life. I am just looking at it from a scientific, statistical point of view. I am just stating facts. The average salary of someone who is 6'2" is higher than the average salary of someone who is 5'7". There was a study done that revealed this.

Your life is what you make of it. But generally, statistically, certain truths remain.

Denying facts doesn't help anybody.

I understand, but I really wouldn't consider these facts just yet. I would appreciate a link to this study. How many test subjects? Did they poll cover a range of demographics? What were the salary ranges used?

Fact: Most men want to be taller, in better shape, and have more hair on their head.

Men who are taller, in better shape, and with more hair make more money...fact? Maybe. I could believe it.

It certainly is NOT a deal-breaker and that if you are bald, short, or out of shape, or a combination of the three, you can easily land a great career with the right mindset. There's too many people without hair, out of shape and below-average height that are making the big bucks.

[[mcr]]

I read about that study a few years ago, you're just gonna have to take my word for it or google it. I also remember that the researchers tried to pinpoint the differences between short and tall people which could explain the discrepancy, and they found none except one: self-esteem.

[StayStrongMen]

I read about that study a few years ago, you're just gonna have to take my word for it or google it. I also remember that the researchers tried to pinpoint the differences between short and tall people which could explain the discrepancy, and they found none except one: self-esteem.

Thank you for sharing this.

[jooder]

Self esteem is everything...... and unfortunately what many people on this forum lack. Bald = ugly is just an utterly ridiculous concept, however, self criticism and feeling sorry for yourself are highly undesirable traits.
The fact that many bald men shave their heads is to make the most of what they are, to take control of the situation. Obviously grown out hair in the horseshoe shape isnt as attractive as a short neat shaved appearence...... although some men can even look good like this....... e.g. billy zane.
In an ideal world it would be good to have the option of hair or no hair, anything that gives you options is preferable..... but it doesnt curtail your life in any way - unless you let it.
Some actual opinions here...

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/368741

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqBgwqjMoUZJEfico9Ugo9HD7BR.;_ylv=3?qid=20070409170604AAGIzDA

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/12208135datingPostpage2.aspx

Im not saying that all women love bald by any means...... but it is evident that to many it makes no difference at all, and some even prefer it. Of course, these opinions will not change the idea of some (fixed by 35 et al) that we are lepers. Good luck with the pity party : )

[level]

Here's a few questions to mull over:

1) A lot of people on this site say that hair loss does not affect a man's success with women. I know women who won't go out with men because they don't have enough hair. How many women do you know who won't go out with men because they have a full head of hair?

2) A lot of people say appearances don't matter and that it's shallow to worry about hair. So why do they all desperately follow the fashion of shaving their heads? It doesn't matter so why bother.... right?

3) They also say that baldness doesn't affect career prospects. But we know people don't elect bald Prime Ministers or Presidents. So why do they suddenly become more altruistic when they recruit?

John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren, James A. Garfield, Dwight Eisenhower-All bald; all American Presidents; all elected by the people.

Other important leaders/figures who were bald:

Winston Churchill, Mohandas Gandhi, Caesar, Lenin, Socrates, Shakespeare, etc...

The list can go on and on. I'm sure there has been more leaders w/ hair than without, but to say that people won't elect bald Prime Ministers or Presidents is misinforming.

Also, similar to the EU, the US is a union made up of several states. Every State has a Governor that is the leader of that state and elected by the people. They have the same veto power-within their State-as the US president does (w/ the Union).

Current bald US governors:

Sonny Purdue
Pat Quinn
Mitch Daniels
John Baldacci
Ed Rendell
Jim Douglas
Jim Doyle

There's others with NW 4-5 that could've been added to the list, but I just listed the full-blown bald ones.

[mlao]

Your point though not without merit sited a number of leaders who lived before the twentieth century if you wanted to mention a currant leader you might mention Vladimir Putin.

I am not taking sides in this debate but in today's image driven world people sadly choose the better or at least younger looking person.

We live in a youth driven society and some of the young guys on this forum fell robbed of their youth. So even though some of their rants may seem over the top I for one think it is a good place for them to express the frustration they experience.

[[mcr]]

It would also be misinforming to deny that looks matter more today than ever. Would FDR or any president with a disability be elected today?

Let's look at the most recent presidents:
Obama - hair
Bush - hair
Clinton - hair
Bush Sr - hair
Reagan - hair
Carter - hair

And they were all decent looking for their age, not fat/short/etc.