HST reply - claims of 6-8 HSTs

[Skywalker]

IMO hst is great if you want very conservative HT, with high hairline, ability to shave after 2-3 procedures..if you want full head of hair it wont happen, H&W are kings when it comes to yield.

I don't think that is an unreasonable statement regarding the current state of play - if you want the illusion of a full head of hair on NW5's or 6's then we don't see evidence to date of that with HST so far.

Remember though that H&W do Strip to get these results - not FUE, you need an excellent donor and you will need to factor in the strip scar for the rest of your life - meaning you should never expect to have the option to shave down again. You should also be willing to take Finasteride for the rest of your life.

FUE can of course get great results - but massive transformations are not as possible in my opinion and the donor area won't stand up to it. I think FUE is still better with smaller procedures - in my opinion if you go strip you go HUMUNGOUS - it doesn't make sense to me to have a small strip procedure.

Personally the option of a non-damaged donor area makes HST the only option that I would consider as of June 2013 - but I still want more information on the yield they are getting. GC's next procedure will be VERY informative in my opinion as he documents well and he says he will again.

[didi]

1) Saunders specs on his head are from two treatments, NOT three. He was going for his 3rd. So you are seeing the results of 3000+ grafts.

2) How can you even comment on his results when he shaves to the bone? Its not like he grew out his hair and the results are sh-t. Frankly when he shaves to the bone, we can't really tell how well the results were, EXCEPT for the fact that he had no donor scarring.

3) I think Spencer was right in that Gho is a minimal scarring, conservative option. If you want an impact result in 1-2 passes, and you have a lot of loss, he's probably not your guy. HOWEVER, if you want the ability to shave to a 1 grade or lower, he is your only guy! For me he's the only one I would consider, as I currently shave to a 1, and probably can't get more than 4000 regular FUE grafts out maximum. So for me (and probably a guy like Saunders too), the ability to shave down is non-negotiable, otherwise I wouldn't even consider a transplant. For all you newbies out there who haven't seen results or had consultations, Doctors will tell you the ability to shave down to a 1 grade with FUE is not guaranteed!

if you have 4000 available via FUE that would mean you could have 20 000+ with HST.
85% donor regeneration is as good as 100%... in theory every patient would get full head of hair before his donor runs out


IMO hst is great if you want very conservative HT, with high hairline, ability to shave after 2-3 procedures..if you want full head of hair it wont happen, H&W are kings when it comes to yield.

its a big red flag when clinic claims to multiply hairs but cant produce results that are better than traditional HTs, in fact they are far worse than fue/fut...mediocre at best

[Brock Landers]

Saunders result

1) Saunders specs on his head are from two treatments, NOT three. He was going for his 3rd. So you are seeing the results of 3000+ grafts.

2) How can you even comment on his results when he shaves to the bone? Its not like he grew out his hair and the results are sh-t. Frankly when he shaves to the bone, we can't really tell how well the results were, EXCEPT for the fact that he had no donor scarring.

3) I think Spencer was right in that Gho is a minimal scarring, conservative option. If you want an impact result in 1-2 passes, and you have a lot of loss, he's probably not your guy. HOWEVER, if you want the ability to shave to a 1 grade or lower, he is your only guy! For me he's the only one I would consider, as I currently shave to a 1, and probably can't get more than 4000 regular FUE grafts out maximum. So for me (and probably a guy like Saunders too), the ability to shave down is non-negotiable, otherwise I wouldn't even consider a transplant. For all you newbies out there who haven't seen results or had consultations, Doctors will tell you the ability to shave down to a 1 grade with FUE is not guaranteed!

[Brock Landers]

Saunders result

sorry double post, where is the delete post button?

[cocacola]

I mean non hst 5000 graft that people claim look better on a nw7 like saunders

[bald fighter]

^^^

http://www.hasci.com/en/news-media/third-hst-treatment-for-dean-saunders/

[cocacola]

Can u please show those 5000 graft results

[ryan555]

I assume we are talking NW6 ? Otherwise you don't need so many do you ?

They may have told you 10,000 on average but I think that is commonly known as Bullshit - and I think the proof of the pudding is that the results are just not there.

The problem with NW6 guys is that their donor density is often somewhat compromised as well.

Well bullshit or not, 10,000 grafts from someone claiming 85% donor regeneration is not impressive in the least, unless it were done on a slick Norwood 7 with very low donor density.

[KO1]

.

[KO1]

I agree with didi, the major HT clinics have put out 5k plus graft cases on slick bald patients, that look far better than Dean Saunders. After all this talk about stem cells and multiplication, all we have is a guy with a very high hairline and specks on top of his scalp.

I have yet to see any Gho patients show any transformation that matches Hasson&Wong, Lorenzo or Erdogan's cases.

[Skywalker]

...but I've been told by very prestigious surgeons that 8,000 would be "typical" for an average patient and that another 2,000 could generally be taken via fue for a total of 10,000 grafts. Most patients may not opt to get that many but it would be possible in a lot of cases.

I assume we are talking NW6 ? Otherwise you don't need so many do you ?

They may have told you 10,000 on average but I think that is commonly known as Bullshit - and I think the proof of the pudding is that the results are just not there.

The problem with NW6 guys is that their donor density is often somewhat compromised as well.

[greatjob!]

I'm sure you're correct that it is not common for a patient to get 10k grafts, but I've been told by very prestigious surgeons that 8,000 would be "typical" for an average patient and that another 2,000 could generally be taken via fue for a total of 10,000 grafts. Most patients may not opt to get that many but it would be possible in a lot of cases. And it sounds like it is an atypical result for HST as well. I still don't get why 10,000 is a big deal nor why they would need to stop there if they are getting 85% donor regeneration. Are they unable to reuse regenerated grafts in future procedures? The numbers just don't seem to add up.

Yeah that all sounds correct. I'm just throwing out big numbers. The real point I'm getting at is that until I see hst achieving numbers that are not possible using traditional fue I am not convinced they are getting the regeneration they are claiming that's all.

[ryan555]

Routinely? Go find 10 results of patients who have received 10,000+ grafts, also remember I said grafts not hair. Hasson & Wong are the kings of high graft counts and I have only ever seen one patient from them break the 10,000 mark. Very few people have 10,000 grafts in there donor for a strip hair transplant and almost no one has 10,000 grafts available via FUE. So if hst can extract 10,000 grafts from a good amount of patients it proves they are achieving a high regeneration rate, because almost no one has 10,000 grafts available for transplant via FUE. I understand that no technique currently available can restore natural density, but 10,000 grafts on a bald person with say 200 cm to cover can restore to a average density of 50 grafts/cm2. That person would look as if they never lost any hair, so while it is not natural density, the ability to move 10,000+ grafts is essentially a cure.

My point here is they claim of 85% regeneration and they have had patients receive 10,000 grafts from hst why don't they show these result because it would end the debate as it is impossible to extract 10,000 grafts via FUE without a high rate of regeneration. It doesn't make sense why a business would not display there best results. They say we have many patients that have had 6-8 procedures done, but the only pictures they display are people who have received less than 3,000 grafts. Lets see someone who has received 8 hst treatments and over 10,000+ grafts and looks good and I will bow down to Dr. Gho and will give him all my money.

I'm sure you're correct that it is not common for a patient to get 10k grafts, but I've been told by very prestigious surgeons that 8,000 would be "typical" for an average patient and that another 2,000 could generally be taken via fue for a total of 10,000 grafts. Most patients may not opt to get that many but it would be possible in a lot of cases. And it sounds like it is an atypical result for HST as well. I still don't get why 10,000 is a big deal nor why they would need to stop there if they are getting 85% donor regeneration. Are they unable to reuse regenerated grafts in future procedures? The numbers just don't seem to add up.

[greatjob!]

Clinics routinely achieve 10,000 graft results with FUT, albeit usually resulting in depletion of donor hair. 10,000 grafts is not enough to restore a high Norwood to a full head of hair. A Norwood 6 or 7 would likely have lost 60 - 70,000 hairs, so adding 20,000 back is not going to achieve a dense result. When they are able to do 20,000 grafts without noticeable donor depletion, then we have something to get excited about.

Routinely? Go find 10 results of patients who have received 10,000+ grafts, also remember I said grafts not hair. Hasson & Wong are the kings of high graft counts and I have only ever seen one patient from them break the 10,000 mark. Very few people have 10,000 grafts in there donor for a strip hair transplant and almost no one has 10,000 grafts available via FUE. So if hst can extract 10,000 grafts from a good amount of patients it proves they are achieving a high regeneration rate, because almost no one has 10,000 grafts available for transplant via FUE. I understand that no technique currently available can restore natural density, but 10,000 grafts on a bald person with say 200 cm to cover can restore to a average density of 50 grafts/cm2. That person would look as if they never lost any hair, so while it is not natural density, the ability to move 10,000+ grafts is essentially a cure.

My point here is they claim of 85% regeneration and they have had patients receive 10,000 grafts from hst why don't they show these result because it would end the debate as it is impossible to extract 10,000 grafts via FUE without a high rate of regeneration. It doesn't make sense why a business would not display there best results. They say we have many patients that have had 6-8 procedures done, but the only pictures they display are people who have received less than 3,000 grafts. Lets see someone who has received 8 hst treatments and over 10,000+ grafts and looks good and I will bow down to Dr. Gho and will give him all my money.

[ryan555]

This is what I would like to know. If there are patients that have had 6-8 hst treatments then at somewhere around 1500 grafts per procedure it puts them up around the 10,000 graft mark. 10,000 grafts is very rarely possible with traditional HT's, and would easily restore a high norwood level to a full head of hair. However I have yet to see a single example of this kind of transformation coming from them. Every clinic posts there absolute best cases on their websites, so why are all the pics from hasci mediocre. If they want to prove their procedure beyond a doubt all they have to do is post before and after pics of all these patients that have received 6-8 treatments. You show me someone with 10,000+ grafts and good results in the recipient and the argument is over, period. The fact that they won't do this makes me think they are full of it. The saying pics or it didn't happen comes to mind.

Clinics routinely achieve 10,000 graft results with FUT, albeit usually resulting in depletion of donor hair. 10,000 grafts is not enough to restore a high Norwood to a full head of hair. A Norwood 6 or 7 would likely have lost 60 - 70,000 hairs, so adding 20,000 back is not going to achieve a dense result. When they are able to do 20,000 grafts without noticeable donor depletion, then we have something to get excited about.