The 50 Graft Test Procedure

[Arashi]

By the way, Kristel also wrote that she had to drill 75x to get these 51 grafts. She wrote in Dutch " ook de 24 ‘afgekeurde’ stukjes grafts hebben we op een apart stukje gezet" I'm not really sure how to translate because I don't really know what she meant here but best translation probably would be something like "and also the 24 'disapproved' pieces of grafts we placed in a seperate section". Not sure what she means here, probably that this time they didn't throw away the failed extractions but placed them in the petridish in a seperate section ? Anyway I'm sure the photo's will speak for themselves, dying to see them, this is all extremely interesting Soon we will have all the answers we always wanted

[534623]

I clearly remember IronMan saying they don't extract singles.

Regarding Ironmans 'Guess' on his theory:
"Because this "special extraction technique" for singles would be the only way for regeneration of both (visible) hairs in the donor area, as well as the desired growth of a single hair (eventually 2-hair graft!) in the recipient area.
In this case, the 2nd HAIR SHAFT serves just as guide for the needle (and cuts the 2nd hair-guide-shaft simply off after around 2-3 mm), to get the essential follcle parts for the single hair, but leaves also sufficient follicle tissue behind for regeneration of both hairs in the donor area."

Right - that's what I said. They DON'T extract typical "single follicles" as with normal FUE. I had a very long discussion about this issue with Dr. Broekhuijse (the day before my 1st HST) concerning "how they get SINGLES if needed?".
He explained, that when they really need normal and real SINGLE hair grafts, in this case, and just in this case, they simply extract around 10-15 real single hair grafts, and these real single hair grafts are placed just in front of the hairline. Everything behind these around 10-15 real SINGLES (not more!) are multis. But these 10-15 real SINGLES, represent, in fact, normal FUE singles, because with the small HST needle, you CAN'T extract a normal SINGLE hair graft in such a way, so that you still leave enough follicular stem cells behind in the donor area. In this case, and just in this case, even the small HST needle is simply "too big" for 1 normal SINGLE hair follicle. that means, the diameter of the average single hair follicle as well as the inner-diameter of the HST needle, both have almost the same diameter - so there can't be enough follicle tissue left behind in the donor area. In this case, the normal single hair follicle is simply extracted completely INTACT like a normal FUE single hair graft.

And now the real good question:
How can you solve this problem, if you simply need enough SINGLE hair grafts for the patient (for the hairline etc) - WITHOUT compromising the donor regrowth part??

Simply using a needle with an even smaller inner-diameter is NOT the ideal solution, because you're almost "forced" to use a 2nd HAIR SHAFT as "guide" to get also parts of the follicle's DERMAL SHEATH. If you would simply extract a normal single hair follicle simply with an even smaller HST needle - there would be no DERMAL SHEATH (at least not enough or not at all!) attached to the graft. Such a "graft" would look like a normal PLUCKED HAIR (with some follicle tissue attached). Partially attached DERMAL SHEATHS to HST grafts is simply ESSENTIAL for the HST technique.

[Arashi]

Hopefully they took a before picture also.

For sure mate. They have microscopic photo's, their own photo's, the photo's shot by the professional photographer and they had a video crew recording it. So tons of material this time and most of it shot by professionals with pro equipment

[Arashi]

Also something Kristel mailed me a few days ago but I haven't placed here yet, is that James Bald also returned several days after the procedure and it turned out that quite a few of the 'singles' actually grew as double in the recipient.

Anyway, that's what this whole test is about. Comparing the before and after photo's with the recipient. And given the fact that they have so much material now, also shot by professionals, I feel confident we'll soon know all we want to know.

[Arashi]

Well, I translated Kristel's words as single, double and tripples, but maybe a better translation would be: grafts with just one, two or three 'roots'. I think the petridish would look pretty much alike the one from James bald and we'll see often times for the 'one root' grafts that it consists out of 2 hairs, where one got transected.

However please note that this is just my own speculation. We'll get the pictures hopefully soon (once HASCI gets them from their professional photographer) and then we can analyse the pre-op situation and if there are questions thereafter, I'll be happy to forward them to Kristel.

[gc83uk]

Ok. Surgery took place wednesday as planned. 51 grafts were taken, 23 singles, 16 doubles and 2 triplets. This time microscopic photo's were made, there was also a camera crew present who made video's AND a professional photographer was present who shot photo's too. Obviously HASCI wanted to get it right time Kristel asked me to come by on day 2 but it was difficult for me due a very busy time with travelling etc so I missed that, but they've shot photo's of day 2 as well.

Everything will be delivered to them on a DVD and once they have it I'll get the material too and post it here.

Excellent mate. I'm curious as to why they extract almost 50% of the grafts as singles. I clearly remember IronMan saying they don't extract singles.

Regarding Ironmans 'Guess' on his theory:
"Because this "special extraction technique" for singles would be the only way for regeneration of both (visible) hairs in the donor area, as well as the desired growth of a single hair (eventually 2-hair graft!) in the recipient area.
In this case, the 2nd HAIR SHAFT serves just as guide for the needle (and cuts the 2nd hair-guide-shaft simply off after around 2-3 mm), to get the essential follcle parts for the single hair, but leaves also sufficient follicle tissue behind for regeneration of both hairs in the donor area."

If that's the case, then there is nothing to worry about, but I highly doubt that the single hair graft in the recipient will 'eventually' become a 2 hair graft. I kind of understand iron mans reasoning on why it would/might become a 2 hair graft, but if it was to become a 2 hair graft, then why do they bother calling them singles?

I think we definitely need to put these questions to Kristel.

[JJJJrS]

Just some day 2 photo's Kristel sent me already:

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12798064/img/12798064.jpg

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12798062/img/12798062.jpg

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12798063.jpg

Nice pictures Definitely good enough for an analysis.

Hopefully they took a before picture also.

[534623]

Ok. Surgery took place wednesday as planned. 51 grafts were taken,

- 23 singles,
- 16 doubles and
- 2 triplets.

Could you please ask Kristel 2 extremely simple questions?

Question #1:
What the ****ing hell is the reason for 23 singles??????????????

When you look at this photo ...

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12798063/img/12798063.jpg

...within the test-area (where you can see the 51 extractions) - there are still plenty of 2-hair grafts (even some 3-hair grafts) left. So why did she extract 23 singles instead of the remaining 2-hair grafts? The characteristics of the hairs as well as the configuration of most of the grafts in this test candidate's donor area, isn't even "complicated"; that means looks like "typical Caucasian standard" with rather fine and straight hair and not thick curly hair or something.

Question #2:
HOW, in fact, does she extract SINGLE GRAFTS at all?????

Let me guess:
These singles look like those grafts ...

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12643640/img/12643640.jpg

... as you can see them in the section "1".

Because this "special extraction technique" for singles would be the only way for regeneration of both (visible) hairs in the donor area, as well as the desired growth of a single hair (eventually 2-hair graft!) in the recipient area.
In this case, the 2nd HAIR SHAFT serves just as guide for the needle (and cuts the 2nd hair-guide-shaft simply off after around 2-3 mm), to get the essential follcle parts for the single hair, but leaves also sufficient follicle tissue behind for regeneration of both hairs in the donor area.

[Arashi]

Just some day 2 photo's Kristel sent me already:

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12798064/img/12798064.jpg

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12798062/img/12798062.jpg

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12798063/img/12798063.jpg

[Arashi]

Good to hear Looking forward to the update

Ok. Surgery took place wednesday as planned. 51 grafts were taken, 23 singles, 16 doubles and 2 triplets. This time microscopic photo's were made, there was also a camera crew present who made video's AND a professional photographer was present who shot photo's too. Obviously HASCI wanted to get it right time Kristel asked me to come by on day 2 but it was difficult for me due a very busy time with travelling etc so I missed that, but they've shot photo's of day 2 as well.

Everything will be delivered to them on a DVD and once they have it I'll get the material too and post it here.

[JJJJrS]

Sorry guys been busy travelling. I think i have good news. Will update soon hopefully later today

Good to hear Looking forward to the update

[Arashi]

Sorry guys been busy travelling. I think i have good news. Will update soon hopefully later today

[hellouser]

hmmm, as long as Arashi gets regularly analyzable high quality photos from Kristel (donor as well as recipient photos) - no problem at all.

But let me guess - good quality BEFORE photos will be missing - if they really did a test-procedure at all ...

It'll be up to Arashi to provide the pics. I hope these pull through.

[534623]

^^What is the point of doing the 50 graft test organized by the forum WITHOUT taking part in the forum??

hmmm, as long as Arashi gets regularly analyzable high quality photos from Kristel (donor as well as recipient photos) - no problem at all.

But let me guess - good quality BEFORE photos will be missing - if they really did a test-procedure at all ...

[hellouser]

^^What is the point of doing the 50 graft test organized by the forum WITHOUT taking part in the forum??