The 50 Graft Test Procedure

[Arashi]

Ok, I finished counting, but it was quick & dirty. Best way to go ahead of course is to divide the petridish in sections and count hairs/section. I finished up pretty close to what I was expecting, but won't give the number yet, would love to hear what you guys came up with

[Arashi]

Ok, I've mailed Kristel. I asked her take on the difference between 250 usable hairs and the +/- 450 in the dish. Also asked her what she's expecting to see as regrowth here. Hopefully we'll know tomorrow (HASCI is closed of course by now).

[Arashi]

JJJRS thinks 65% hairs regrow. That would mean James lost 154 in donor IF there are indeed 440 in petridish. If all hair in donor grows, we'll see 250 hairs there. 154 hairs sacrificied in donor, to achieve 250 in recipient. Hence 40% regrowth. That's been my point all along.

Sorry meant "If all hair in RECIPIENT grows" of course in the above.

[Arashi]

Anyway, going to mail Kristel and see what she says about all this

[Arashi]

If we're going on James petri dish of 200 grafts equating to e.g 500 extracted hair

HASCI labled 250 hairs as usuable. Of course maybe they won't grow all, but I'm still expecting to see 250 hairs in recipient. And I think there will be less than 500 hairs in the petridish, expecting about 450, maybe a bit less.

[gc83uk]

Hehe. This is just a terminology discussion and to me it's rather pointless but ok. What I'm saying: when we analysed your scalp, we saw 80% of grafts regenerate. However, quite a few 2 hair graft regenerated as 1 hair grafts. Hence JJJJRS found out that if we were looking at haircount, not 80% but 65% of hairs regenerated. So yeah, if you count a 2 hair graft regenerating as 1, you'd see 80%. But if you'd look at the HAIRS you'd see 65% regenerate.

OK, so a 2 hair FU regrowing as a single is 50% regrowth, which we are agreed on.

If we're going on James petri dish of 200 grafts equating to e.g 500 extracted hairs, then you could also argue hypothetically that one of my procedures of 700 extracted grafts had 1750 hairs in the petri dish extracted. With 1000 hairs in my recipient from 700 grafts which I believe is fairly accurate, 750 hairs have gone missing.

So if your using the 65% figure of 'Hairs', then of the 1750 hairs extracted about 1100 regrow in the donor, but of these 1100, 750 never even grown in the recipient area (1750 - 1000), so perhaps only 350 hairs regrown from the actual 1000 hairs which are growing in the recipient.

So in effect your getting net gain on the head of 350 hairs from a 700 graft (1000 hair) procedure. So not doubling, but in my case, you start with 100 hairs and end up with 135ish.

There is nothing wrong with the above, still better than FUE.

I won't mention this again, honest!

I'll get on with counting.

[Arashi]

how is it fair to expect 250 when its clear that these are just transected grafts, ex 2 hair grafts converted to 1s.....

JJJR was the first to point that out...

JJJRS thinks 65% hairs regrow. That would mean James lost 154 in donor IF there are indeed 440 in petridish. If all hair in donor grows, we'll see 250 hairs there. 154 hairs sacrificied in donor, to achieve 250 in recipient. Hence 40% regrowth. That's been my point all along.

[didi]

"It seems about 60% of the singles are 2 hairs'

Now im just waiting IM to say that they are all telogen hairs......feel sorry for James having so many hairs in non-growing phase...

[didi]

how is it fair to expect 250 when its clear that these are just transected grafts, ex 2 hair grafts converted to 1s.....

JJJR was the first to point that out...

[Arashi]

'But to me it's obvious that HASCI is expecting to see 250 hairs in recipient. Cause they labled 150 hairs as single (usable) grafts and 50 hairs as double (usable) grafts. '

exactly....we have 500 hairs and expectation will be 250....

It seems about 60% of the singles are 2 hairs. 10% is 1 hair and 30% 3. Which would total

180
15
135

Plus 110 in the 2's section, total 440 hairs in the petridish. This is just a preliminary guess, going to count them all and I suggest you start doing too.

[didi]

'But to me it's obvious that HASCI is expecting to see 250 hairs in recipient. Cause they labled 150 hairs as single (usable) grafts and 50 hairs as double (usable) grafts. '

exactly....we have 500 hairs in petri and expectation will be 250....

[Arashi]

But I think our implications are different. You're going to suggest that 1 hair grows in donor, 1 hair in recipient. That's really not necessarily true of course

[Arashi]

My theory is simple, they transected 2 hair grafts, one follicle left behind will grow and the other part in recipient will also grow...

Totally agreed. Well there are also some (10%) telogen hairs and we won't know what happen with these, but I think it's fair to suggest what you're saying is right.

[didi]

if you go by hasci theres 250 HAIRS in petri...those in singles partition are expected to grow s singles, theya re ones in Jameses hairline...OK..150 of them

doubles will grow as doubles..

real problem is that we have much more than 250 hairs....we cans see that in petri...

My theory is simple, they transected 2 hair grafts, one follicle left behind will grow and the other part in recipient will also grow...

[Arashi]

I've started counting though and I'd say we're going to end even closer to 500 than 400.

But yeah, I'll email Kristel and ask her take on all of this. But to me it's obvious that HASCI is expecting to see 250 hairs in recipient. Cause they labled 150 hairs as single (usable) grafts and 50 hairs as double (usable) grafts.