The 50 Graft Test Procedure

[Arashi]

All in all, man, let's just hope HASCI is willing to do a new 50 graft test Even if it's going to be possible to do what I suggested on your pictures, it's going to be a hell of a job ...

[Arashi]

I'm still downloading the pictures ... But I don't know GC ... do you think they're good enough to count all possible extraction sides ? We'd only need to count the right side (since you only have pre-op of that), but still... I'm not sure if it's going to be possible ...

[gc83uk]

So do I understand correctly that they took 800 on one side of your scalp and the other 800 on the other side ? And are the photo's good enough to count the total of possible extraction sites ? They're still downing, will take some time ...

You do realise you don't have to download the pictures as a whole batch? You can just view them in a gallery.

And yes 800 each side, that's why you can see a pic of my right side donor shaved and untouched after having taken 800 from the left side on the 1st day.

The extractions are easier to count from the left side as it was much bloodier and taken immediately after I got back to the hotel. However the after pic of the right side extractions isn't quite as red, probably because I took it about 24/36 hours after extraction.

Unfortunately I don't have a before pic of the left side, as explained above.

[Arashi]

So do I understand correctly that they took 800 on one side of your scalp and the other 800 on the other side ? And are the photo's good enough to count the total of possible extraction sites ? They're still downing, will take some time ...

[Arashi]

1600 in total 800 each day.

I had you down as living in Holland, you lucky bugger! I won't say much else.

Hehe, it IS actually (part of) The Netherlands

[gc83uk]

Ok, downing the pics, will take some time. Sorry but I forgot, how many grafts did you get exactly in HST 3 ? 800 in total ? Or did you go 2 days ?

1600 in total 800 each day.

I had you down as living in Holland, you lucky bugger! I won't say much else.

[Arashi]

Ok, downing the pics, will take some time. Sorry but I forgot, how many grafts did you get exactly in HST 3 ? 800 in total ? Or did you go 2 days ?

[gc83uk]

I'll add new pics each week to the library and assuming I go to Hasci for my 4th HST which I'm planning in Sept/Oct then I'll upload again to that account.

[JJJJrS]

Received..

[Arashi]

thx, I've got em

[gc83uk]

good stuff

[Arashi]

please delete t

[JJJJrS]

Whats so difficult about knowing if HST works or not with 80% regeneration when using IronMan's simple suggestion:

Just count the total number of hairs that regrew from regenerated follicles and the total number of hairs that grew in the recipient area. The numbers should reflect what percentage there is of regeneration and recipient growth.

Forget follicles.

I dont see what all the fuss is about in this thread??

Just to illustrate one problem, let's look at the petri dish photo again.

Take a look at the subsection of the petri dish labelled '1'. This is supposed to contain all single hair grafts. What you'll notice however, is that the vast majority of these grafts have two hairs - one of which is transected . According to HASCI, the vast majority of these transections should regenerate in the donor but will not yield in the recipient.

Let's pretend we don't have this knowledge and we don't have a good before photo and just look at the extraction points. Practically every one of the extraction points where the single-hair grafts were extracted from will regenerate hair, even if there was no real regeneration, soley due to the transected hair!

There's additional problems too. There was approximately 50 more extraction points then usuable grafts. These were likely transections also, and every single one of these should regenerate hairs also without providing a useful hair graft.

So what you'll have in reality, is a totally inflated donor regeneration figure which has no basis in reality. You need good before photos and you must link the donor results with the recipient otherwise the analysis isn't worth much.

[gc83uk]

Regarding recipient, you're right. However regarding donor, you'll need to know how many hairs were in the extraction sites in the first place. Only then you can calculate how many hairs were lost.

Anyway, this is exactly what my plan is: See how many hairs GC lost in donor and see how many hairs he got in recipient. That's all we need to know.

There are 2 ways to do this. First way is to do an analysis like JJJJrS did: compare pre and postop of donor and count how many hairs are gone. However JJJJrS only did 100 grafts and I can bet that this was already a horrible amount of work. To do this for ALL possible extraction sites is just not very feasible.

However, the 2nd way to do this is to extrapolate/estimate. We know how many hairs GC lost on those 107 or so extraction sites that JJJJrS analysed. Hence we can calculate the average lost hair per extraction site. Multiply that by the total number of extraction sites and you have an estimate of the total amount of hair GC lost in donor.

I also think it's worth adding a new set of donor pics to the library, I buzz my hair every 2 or 3 days, you never know some of the hairs might have grown stronger or generally more may have grown through.

An easier test maybe to just compare a new photo with JJJJrS's last edition to see if there has been any improvement over 3 months.

[Arashi]

Whats so difficult about knowing if HST works or not with 80% regeneration when using IronMan's simple suggestion:

Just count the total number of hairs that regrew from regenerated follicles and the total number of hairs that grew in the recipient area. The numbers should reflect what percentage there is of regeneration and recipient growth.

Forget follicles.

I dont see what all the fuss is about in this thread??

Regarding recipient, you're right. However regarding donor, you'll need to know how many hairs were in the extraction sites in the first place. Only then you can calculate how many hairs were lost.

Anyway, this is exactly what my plan is: See how many hairs GC lost in donor and see how many hairs he got in recipient. That's all we need to know.

There are 2 ways to do this. First way is to do an analysis like JJJJrS did: compare pre and postop of donor and count how many hairs are gone. However JJJJrS only did 100 grafts and I can bet that this was already a horrible amount of work. To do this for ALL possible extraction sites is just not very feasible.

However, the 2nd way to do this is to extrapolate/estimate. We know how many hairs GC lost on those 107 or so extraction sites that JJJJrS analysed. Hence we can calculate the average lost hair per extraction site. Multiply that by the total number of extraction sites and you have an estimate of the total amount of hair GC lost in donor.