Histogen at the ISHRS conference

[Desmond84]

On a serious note, this is going to turn into a very depressing forum if Histogen releases bad results in February or gives up on the HSC....

I believe everyone should just go on the "FearTheLosss Big 3" for now..

Propecia (to maintain/hopeful growth) Nizoral (scalp condition) and PRAY (pray that those work and that histogen releases this product soon)

Bahhahahaha I've been on "FearTheLosss Big 3" for over 6 months now

On a serious note though, if Histogen is SAFE, there is no doubt that it will be released! So, there's no more speculations about that. Phase 2 (efficacy studies) have proven successful...

The real question now is whether Replicel/Aderans will make your follicles DHT-resistant, if NOT, I don't see any reason as to why you would use their therapies over Histogen! Histogen has shown simply far better growth...

Uhhh the waiting game is a b!t@$

[goingquick]

Bahhahahaha I've been on "FearTheLosss Big 3" for over 6 months now

On a serious note though, if Histogen is SAFE, there is no doubt that it will be released! So, there's no more speculations about that. Phase 2 (efficacy studies) have proven successful...

I agree with you for the most part, but their photos have been really unimpressive. Didn't Zierring say he was going to post more photos during his last talk with Spencer?

[Pate]

I agree with you for the most part, but their photos have been really unimpressive. Didn't Zierring say he was going to post more photos during his last talk with Spencer?

I've pointed this out several times before but it bears repeating. You can't judge the impact of a mere 20 injections on long haired subjects after only three months. Even HT grafts take 6 months or more to grow in and they are fully healthy follicles.

Get a photo of a couple hundred injections with repeats after 12 months before judging how big a cosmetic effect HSC has.

[Kirby_]

It's equally likely that Histogen will fail and then we won't get anything. It's HSC or nothing. I wouldn't count on anything else for the next 10+ years

FWIW, I hate to be pessimistic, but I agree with you on that. We haven't had any advances in the last 10 years, after all. Unless the Prostaglandin theory can somehow show a way forward, things don't look good.

[rdawg]

FWIW, I hate to be pessimistic, but I agree with you on that. We haven't had any advances in the last 10 years, after all. Unless the Prostaglandin theory can somehow show a way forward, things don't look good.

yes with two products on the verge of being approved for phase III(bim and histogen), things dont look good at all

Histogen is not in phase IIb due to failure, they know it works, they're just trying to make it better.

this is not even counting the PGD2 stuff, CB and the fact that science and technology has grown quite alot in the past 10 years, we are only going to get more advance, it's not like less and less products will be introduced for hairloss, they will always be searching for the next way to help us.(and really, with the big 3, we already do have a little bit of help.)

[HARIRI]

Desmond84, You sound very intelligent. I really love to read your replies. I think Histogen is only thing that might work well as other treatments are still in their early phases without any transparency in their results. Its going to be like a propecia with zero sexual sides. Once its available in Asia, I would one of the first clients for sure. I didnt touch my crown for this reason because I'm thinking that transplanted areas wont work well with Histogen. However hairline is a must to me so I couldn't wait. Thank you Kiwi for sharing this interesting news to us

[Kiwi]

Desmond84, You sound very intelligent. I really love to read your replies. I think Histogen is only thing that might work well as other treatments are still in their early phases without any transparency in their results. Its going to be like a propecia with zero sexual sides. Once its available in Asia, I would one of the first clients for sure. I didnt touch my crown for this reason because I'm thinking that transplanted areas wont work well with Histogen. However hairline is a must to me so I couldn't wait. Thank you Kiwi for sharing this interesting news to us

No worries. I do but try

[neversaynever]

Im just as hopeful as you guys, but its hard to disagree with Dr Cole in the first 3 minutes of this video..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khVm4wSpzjo

They've given lots of great numbers, but not a single impressive photo. I find that a bit strange. I imagine photos are a big part of the evidence collection during trials. Histogen being backed by alot of money and alot of science, cant even take pictures with the same lighting?

Anyways, I do hope their numbers are real.

[Scientalk56]

Im just as hopeful as you guys, but its hard to disagree with Dr Cole in the first 3 minutes of this video..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khVm4wSpzjo

They've given lots of great numbers, but not a single impressive photo. I find that a bit strange. I imagine photos are a big part of the evidence collection during trials. Histogen being backed by alot of money and alot of science, cant even take pictures with the same lighting?

Anyways, I do hope their numbers are real.

They didn't inject the whole scalp, they injected small areas, so there's no reason to see hair growth in the whole head.
and as zeiring said, how many scam companies publish great "before"and"after" photos, that in fact are lies..

Yeah i agree with dr cole, but let the science and clinical trials talk.

[neversaynever]

They didn't inject the whole scalp, they injected small areas, so there's no reason to see hair growth in the whole head.
and as zeiring said, how many scam companies publish great "before"and"after" photos, that in fact are lies..

Yeah i agree with dr cole, but let the science and clinical trials talk.

I understand its small areas, but there should at least be macro photos showing clear growth. But the macro's provided either show no improvement or the before and after dont correlate at all (different people?).

I find it hard to imagine Histogen are lying, especially when they present their findings in front of other professionals at various conferences.

Happy to give the benefit of the doubt for now, looking forward to their next update.

[rdawg]

I understand its small areas, but there should at least be macro photos showing clear growth. But the macro's provided either show no improvement or the before and after dont correlate at all (different people?).

I find it hard to imagine Histogen are lying, especially when they present their findings in front of other professionals at various conferences.

Happy to give the benefit of the doubt for now, looking forward to their next update.

We'll see more within a few months, I think Phase IIa officially ends at the end of December, so I'd expect another update around February/March or so.

They dont need investors and it's too early to advertise so they really dont have to show anything which is unfortunate for us.

I do wonder, are they planning on injecting the entire or most of the scalp in the next phase?

[mjolnir]

I understand its small areas, but there should at least be macro photos showing clear growth. But the macro's provided either show no improvement or the before and after dont correlate at all (different people?).

I find it hard to imagine Histogen are lying, especially when they present their findings in front of other professionals at various conferences.

Happy to give the benefit of the doubt for now, looking forward to their next update.

There have been macro photos showing clear growth. Just not as much as people on here were hoping for. Histogen works, and it'll get to market in a few years, provided there aren't any major safety issues discovered. Will it bump you up a full NW? Too early to tell. Will it do as well as minox and fin, but with the added convenience of only being needed once every couple years? Almost certainly.

[rdawg]

There have been macro photos showing clear growth. Just not as much as people on here were hoping for. Histogen works, and it'll get to market in a few years, provided there aren't any major safety issues discovered. Will it bump you up a full NW? Too early to tell. Will it do as well as minox and fin, but with the added convenience of only being needed once every couple years? Almost certainly.

I think it's guarenteed to be better. There are a few things that make me even more excited though:

1. What happens when they inject more often?(as well as the entire scalp/hairloss areas)
2. How much better can this product be when combined with Fin(or any dht inhbitor) as well as minoxidil! two stimulators can potentially boost this product alot!

definitely starting to get excited for histogen, everyone keeps saying we wont have a product for 5+ years, we're almost in 2013 now, this product is going to be out within 2-3 years now(in asia). Phase IIb(1 year) and Phase III(1 year plus a couple months) left.

[Pate]

Since we got Kiwis 50 injections repeated at 6 weeks for $2000 info, I've been doing a lot of mental calcs about it.

I'll need somewhere around 250 injections to cover my thinning areas, assuming 6mm spacing. Repeated at 6 weeks that's 10 grand for one treatment. Add a repeat at say 6 months, that's 20 grand, which is about the cost of a couple of decent fue sessions with a good doctor.

So if that treatment can grow more hair than a top class fue session, it's well worth it, given no scarring and no donor depletion. I'm getting 1000 injections total for 20k. If it grows on average 8 new terminal hairs per injection, that's approx equivalent to 4000 fus by fue. 4000 fus for 20k would be $5 a graft which in my admittedly not very knowledgeable understanding of HTs seems about average.

Now... Histogen said on average HSC produced 25 new hairs per injection. Most would be terminal. So on that logic, HSC should easily outperform FUE on a cost basis if you get an average result. With the added bonus that you deplete no donor and you don't look like you got mangled if it doesn't work. The main advantage of FUE is that the hairs will be permanent while we don't yet know how long HSC will last.

It's looking promising, guys. Not a cure, but potentially a new gold standard for thinning areas.

[john2399]

Since we got Kiwis 50 injections repeated at 6 weeks for $2000 info, I've been doing a lot of mental calcs about it.

I'll need somewhere around 250 injections to cover my thinning areas, assuming 6mm spacing. Repeated at 6 weeks that's 10 grand for one treatment. Add a repeat at say 6 months, that's 20 grand, which is about the cost of a couple of decent fue sessions with a good doctor.

So if that treatment can grow more hair than a top class fue session, it's well worth it, given no scarring and no donor depletion. I'm getting 1000 injections total for 20k. If it grows on average 8 new terminal hairs per injection, that's approx equivalent to 4000 fus by fue. 4000 fus for 20k would be $5 a graft which in my admittedly not very knowledgeable understanding of HTs seems about average.

Now... Histogen said on average HSC produced 25 new hairs per injection. Most would be terminal. So on that logic, HSC should easily outperform FUE on a cost basis if you get an average result. With the added bonus that you deplete no donor and you don't look like you got mangled if it doesn't work. The main advantage of FUE is that the hairs will be permanent while we don't yet know how long HSC will last.

It's looking promising, guys. Not a cure, but potentially a new gold standard for thinning areas.

What norwood are you that you would need 250 injections? 20 grand is alot of dam money. I hope a couple of injections would do the job for a nw 3 like myself.