Histogen at the ISHRS conference

[Pate]

I'd probably call myself a NW5 headed for NW6. But everywhere except my temples still has some terminal hair growing, plus lots of intermediate miniaturised hairs.

So I have a large area that needs treating, hence the 250 injections.

A NW3 would probably need about 80 to cover back to NW2, maybe less. But we don't know if or how well HSC will work on the slick bald scalp normal for NW3s.

And yeah, 20 grand is a lot of damn money. But unfortunately it's gonna cost me a packet no matter what I do. It's worth it IMO, if it gets me back even to NW3.

[hellouser]

And yeah, 20 grand is a lot of damn money. But unfortunately it's gonna cost me a packet no matter what I do. It's worth it IMO, if it gets me back even to NW3.

The skys the limit for the price to regain any or all the hair I've lost since I've started going through this wretched experience.

I don't put a price on my health and ultimately satisfaction with life. Theres no such thing as a monetary value for that and I'll pay whatevers necessary to be happy again. As a tinnitus sufferer on top, I'd trade everything to know what silence sounds like.

[rdawg]

You might not necessarily need to cover every nook and cranny, it's possible you just need enough for a general area(say,1-2 cm per injection or whatever)

that's just a guess or whatever, you might not need to inject every few mm to get the full affect.

[Pate]

Well Histogen said they saw effects within 2mm of the injection site which is a diameter of 4mm. But if there are multiple injections they might overlap and spread out more.

We don't know for sure so it's more speculation. But the available evidence suggests it's a pretty localised effect so many injections needed.

But as hellouser said, I don't really care. I'm not married, got no kids or mortgage and no debt, and having my hair back would make me happier than a house or a car or a world trip. I'll save up for it.

The other thing that would help bring the price down is if Aderans and/or Replicel get a product out. There will be a price war for the baldie dollar.

[5000]

2000 USD every two years is pretty expensive.

concerning the number of injections and dose - nobody can tell, because phase II/III is supposed to check that.

Something like HSC, that bald people in the whole world will be depended on, so they can still hold their hair, shouldn't be expensive. because every bald guy will get the treatment every two years, an income from every bald guy in the world every two years will make histogen rich enough...
that 2000 price will make histogen bankrupt.. lol

anyway.. if that's the max amount of price that would be, it will drop eventually.

brother where does it says you need the injections every 2 years? maybe 100 injections would be sufficient enough for 5 years or even more than that? who knows yet?

[Jasari]

Since we got Kiwis 50 injections repeated at 6 weeks for $2000 info, I've been doing a lot of mental calcs about it.

I'll need somewhere around 250 injections to cover my thinning areas, assuming 6mm spacing. Repeated at 6 weeks that's 10 grand for one treatment. Add a repeat at say 6 months, that's 20 grand, which is about the cost of a couple of decent fue sessions with a good doctor.

So if that treatment can grow more hair than a top class fue session, it's well worth it, given no scarring and no donor depletion. I'm getting 1000 injections total for 20k. If it grows on average 8 new terminal hairs per injection, that's approx equivalent to 4000 fus by fue. 4000 fus for 20k would be $5 a graft which in my admittedly not very knowledgeable understanding of HTs seems about average.

Now... Histogen said on average HSC produced 25 new hairs per injection. Most would be terminal. So on that logic, HSC should easily outperform FUE on a cost basis if you get an average result. With the added bonus that you deplete no donor and you don't look like you got mangled if it doesn't work. The main advantage of FUE is that the hairs will be permanent while we don't yet know how long HSC will last.

It's looking promising, guys. Not a cure, but potentially a new gold standard for thinning areas.

I couldn't imagine it would cost that much. Those estimates are incredibly over priced and 5/10/15/20x more expensive than an FUE transplant because your not factoring in the periodic injections every 2 years.

Essentially under than pricing structure it would be the equivalent of a 4000 graft FUE procedure every two years. They wouldn't make money because people would just get the permanent FUE results.

[koolx]

when will histogen be finally released to the public? i'm desperate!!

[rdawg]

when will histogen be finally released to the public? i'm desperate!!

barring a massive unforseen failure(which I dont expect) expect it in 2015 in asia(Phase IIB Jan 2013-dec 2013, Phase III Jan 2014-Dec 2014, few months for approval means histogen will be ready for summer/christmas 2015).
2016-2017 North america.

[Pate]

I couldn't imagine it would cost that much. Those estimates are incredibly over priced and 5/10/15/20x more expensive than an FUE transplant because your not factoring in the periodic injections every 2 years.

Who said anything about injections every 2 years? Histogen certainly never did. All we know is that the results probably last AT LEAST two years. It could be five, it could be ten. It could be permanent if you're taking some sort of anti-androgen.

Essentially under than pricing structure it would be the equivalent of a 4000 graft FUE procedure every two years. They wouldn't make money because people would just get the permanent FUE results.

Unless they don't have enough donor for permanent FUE results. Which most people don't, at least if they want acceptable density.

Also, my post clearly said the 4,000 graft FUE was assuming only EIGHT new hairs per injection. Histogen said it's more like 25, which is three times higher. So it's currently like a 12,000 graft FUE - most people don't even have that much donor!

If they increase the effectiveness of the formula and as the prices come down with better production techniques (economy of scale) and competition from Aderans/Replicel... it'll just get better.

It's still too early to say exactly what the effects will be. If they really do last only two years then I agree with you, they will have to do much better than eight hairs per injection to compete.

[koolx]

barring a massive unforseen failure(which I dont expect) expect it in 2015 in asia(Phase IIB Jan 2013-dec 2013, Phase III Jan 2014-Dec 2014, few months for approval means histogen will be ready for summer/christmas 2015).
2016-2017 North america.

hi rdawg.. thank u for the reply. do u think when its 1st released in asia in 2015 that i can somehow get my hands on it? i dont want to wait 3-4 years when its released in USA.

also, how effective is it in regrowing hair in the front scalp?

[Pate]

hi rdawg.. thank u for the reply. do u think when its 1st released in asia in 2015 that i can somehow get my hands on it? i dont want to wait 3-4 years when its released in USA.

also, how effective is it in regrowing hair in the front scalp?

Sure you can get your hands on it. Fly to Asia and get it.

It's effective at regrowing hair in the frontal scalp according to Histogen's latest release. It's also effective at the hairline - almost as effective as in the crown.

What's not confirmed is whether it grows hair on slick bald scalp. Ziering said they had tested it on one patient, but that he hadn't seen the results yet. He would know the results by now, but it hasn't been made public.

[koolx]

Sure you can get your hands on it. Fly to Asia and get it.

It's effective at regrowing hair in the frontal scalp according to Histogen's latest release. It's also effective at the hairline - almost as effective as in the crown.

What's not confirmed is whether it grows hair on slick bald scalp. Ziering said they had tested it on one patient, but that he hadn't seen the results yet. He would know the results by now, but it hasn't been made public.

hey pate.. appreciate the reply.. can you tell me how effective is it in regrowing the front scalp? can you give a percentage of regrowth?

[Pate]

Here is what Histogen said about it:

Importantly, the efficacy of HSC is not limited by hair loss region. The Phase I/II clinical trial has shown noted new hair growth in subjects treated in all regions of the scalp, including temporal recession, mid-scalp and vertex. Subjects receiving HSC in the temporal recession, which is known to be more difficult to treat than other areas of hair loss, saw marked improvement in terminal hair count, with a mean increase of 22.6% at 12 weeks and 25.2% at the 24 week time point.

The best result Histogen had across the Phase I/II trial was 80% increase in terminal hair at 3 months. Average was 20%. The average result at 12 months should be around 50%, going by the results of the pilot study.

Check the presentation out for yourself:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/111831133/ISHRS-GNaughton-HSC-Clinical-Update

[HARIRI]

Nice Post Pate. I really have big hopes in Histogen. It would be the optimum cure for crown area so we wont have any donor problem from it as we mostly use donor hair for hairlines.

[clandestine]

So exciting. Cautious optimism in effect.