Histogen show "cosmetic" results oct 2012 update

[Kiwi]

I'm sure it will arrest further hair loss too.

That is a massive win.

You could have limp d**k + propecia. Or Histogen with no sexual side effects.

[rdawg]

Listen to the interview. Ziering people weren't even bothering injecting it all into one spot - they were aiming for "visible" results. No trichoscan, just plain photos. Spencer even suggested them to take videos.
Ziering mentioned one patient in particular who got such good results that his friends/family were giving compliments. Unlikely with their 20-40% numbers but still I would like to see those pictures.

hopefully spencer does another interview with him within the next couple months. I would love to get as much information as possible(downfalls, future possibilities etc.)

[rdawg]

Why don't they give us more releases?

I would like more pictures. Correct me if i'm wrong though but ziering started his process a few months AFTER gail's group(around april/may, some coming in June) so I dont think he's far along with his group enough to show concrete details YET.

Expect a fullout final update in December/January, as the title states, this is initial results.

But still, show more than one picture, not happy they show two 'ok' examples.

I still see noticeable growth, and the fact that this works on temples is fantastic(as this is where most of my loss is).

I'm still 100% positive with this stuff, as there is so much that can be expanded on it(combining it with fin for example? or allergan? etc. or even using more doses?).

and as someone said above, this could be added to make the big 4(or big 5 with allergan), Fin already halts or slows the loss, minox gives a bit of a boost and histogen could actually cause some growth. Many people could reverse their NW3-4 hair to a major extent.

[Breaking Bald]

Why don't they give us more releases?

[The Alchemist]

2020 is being realistic. Verging on the very critical side but realistic none the less. Histogen is no miracle cure based on the evidence so far, we need more data and photos. Where 2020 is 100% wrong is that Fin is better.

Histogen VS Fin

• Histogen gives temple regrowth. Fin doesn't
• Histogen regrows hair. Fin doesn't, it a DHT blocker, it stops loss, you need to add Minox for regrowth.
• Fin gives sexual sides for some people. Histogen doesn't.
• Fin causes and inital shed, Histogen doesn't.
• Histogen is Fin and Minox combined, sides free with temple regrowth.

The photo 2020 posted was of a guy who had been on Fin and Minox for a year and a half.

Histogen is not a cure but its now or will be the best product. We will have a big 4 soon with Histogen top of the pile.

For Diffuse thinners like me I dont know what it will do for those hairs shutting down now that will be gone by the time the product comes to market. I am in europe also and this will hit the US first imo.

Good post which i agree with for the most part. Though, I think you might be wrong about this hitting US markets first - our process is unbelievably tortuous and time consuming. I really hope they move this out in asian markets early.

[MrBlonde]

2020 is being realistic. Verging on the very critical side but realistic none the less. Histogen is no miracle cure based on the evidence so far, we need more data and photos. Where 2020 is 100% wrong is that Fin is better.

Histogen VS Fin

• Histogen gives temple regrowth. Fin doesn't
• Histogen regrows hair. Fin doesn't, it a DHT blocker, it stops loss, you need to add Minox for regrowth.
• Fin gives sexual sides for some people. Histogen doesn't.
• Fin causes and inital shed, Histogen doesn't.
• Histogen is Fin and Minox combined, sides free with temple regrowth.

The photo 2020 posted was of a guy who had been on Fin and Minox for a year and a half.

Histogen is not a cure but its now or will be the best product. We will have a big 4 soon with Histogen top of the pile.

For Diffuse thinners like me I dont know what it will do for those hairs shutting down now that will be gone by the time the product comes to market. I am in europe also and this will hit the US first imo.

[Kiwi]

You know, I was actually feeling happy for a change.

****ing 2020 and Iron man, IDIOTs, for bringing the whole place down.

Histogen show cosmetic results.

2020 shows what a **** he is.

Errr I'm way more impressed with Histogen

[2020]

Listen to the interview. Ziering people weren't even bothering injecting it all into one spot - they were aiming for "visible" results. No trichoscan, just plain photos. Spencer even suggested them to take videos.
Ziering mentioned one patient in particular who got such good results that his friends/family were giving compliments. Unlikely with their 20-40% numbers but still I would like to see those pictures.

[yeahyeahyeah]

Okay, let me clarify - you should only debate 2020 when he's actually blatantly lying, as opposed to just giving a misleading opinion.

Ziering's trial was 20 injections so was still only a very small area. 8 injections 4mm apart in a 3-2-3 pattern is an area of 0.8 x 0.8cm.

20 injections in the same spacing in a 5-5-5-5 pattern is 1.6 x 1.2cm. In terms of area it's 3x the size of the other pattern but still only 0.3 square inches.

You know, I was actually feeling happy for a change.

****ing 2020 and Iron man, IDIOTs, for bringing the whole place down.

[534623]

Okay, let me clarify - you should only debate 2020 when he's actually blatantly lying, as opposed to just giving a misleading opinion.

Ziering's trial was 20 injections so was still only a very small area. 8 injections 4mm apart in a 3-2-3 pattern is an area of 0.8 x 0.8cm.

20 injections in the same spacing in a 5-5-5-5 pattern is 1.6 x 1.2cm. In terms of area it's 3x the size of the other pattern but still only 0.3 square inches.

I have 2 questions:

1) How many hair(shafts) or follicular units (estimated) are there within this observation area?

2) How big (in cm² - estimated) is the observation area at all?

[Pate]

not the trial that was done by Ziering. They tried using HSC as the actual treatment - no percentage crap nothing just plain pictures. Where are those pictures? What happened with the trial?

Okay, let me clarify - you should only debate 2020 when he's actually blatantly lying, as opposed to just giving a misleading opinion.

Ziering's trial was 20 injections so was still only a very small area. 8 injections 4mm apart in a 3-2-3 pattern is an area of 0.8 x 0.8cm.

20 injections in the same spacing in a 5-5-5-5 pattern is 1.6 x 1.2cm. In terms of area it's 3x the size of the other pattern but still only 0.3 square inches.

[re22]

Why should anyone take you seriously really? You're a circus act that has displayed little to no understanding of anything having to do with science or the scientific process, and a shining example of what happens when a person of below average intelligence has access to endless amounts of information. It's the Dunning-Kruger Effect at its most extreme.

[2020]

2. The areas treated were only 2cm x 2cm. You can't look at the scalp as a whole and say "it's still bald!" Of course it's still bald, 95% of it had no HSC injected into it. Macrophotos can't really show you growth unless the whole scalp is treated.

not the trial that was done by Ziering. They tried using HSC as the actual treatment - no percentage crap nothing just plain pictures. Where are those pictures? What happened with the trial?

5. Anybody who debates 2020 on Histogen, save your breath. The guy has lost all reason and logic and now just trolls. He's a very bitter baldy.

yeah okay everything's fine those were very good news... seriously? What happened with the Ziering trial?

[Pate]

To those worried about the macrophoto results, here are a few things to consider.

1. These are only the 6 month results. Hair grows about 1cm per month. Both the subjects in this photo have fairly long hair. If every hair started growing on day 1, we might expect 6cm (just over 2") long hair by 6 months. But the bulk of those hairs don't start growing right away, and even the ones that do will cycle through a catagen and telogen phase before coming in anagen again. The average length of each new hair in those photos would be UNDER 1". So don't expect to see too much. It's equivalent to looking at someone who's had a HT at 6 months and saying it hasn't worked. It has worked - it just takes closer to 12 months for the full results to grow in and become cosmetically significant. That doesn't even consider that HT hairs grow in already terminal - it may take HSC hairs a couple of cycles for the follicle to repair enough to produce a full terminal hair.

2. The areas treated were only 2cm x 2cm. You can't look at the scalp as a whole and say "it's still bald!" Of course it's still bald, 95% of it had no HSC injected into it. Macrophotos can't really show you growth unless the whole scalp is treated.

3. Combine these two factors and it's pretty simple to understand that you shouldn't expect significant results from the macro photos this early in the piece. We need to see the micro photo results shaved to 1-2mm before we can really judge how effective it's been. Ziering's macro study won't do this.

4. We know from the previous results that HSC had good results at 3 months, no significant improvement at 6 months, and then another good improvement at 12 months. No reason to think this will be any different.

5. Anybody who debates 2020 on Histogen, save your breath. The guy has lost all reason and logic and now just trolls. He's a very bitter baldy.

In conclusion - wait for the microphotos. Don't judge the macrophotos until you have a) full scalp coverage with repeat injections and b) 12 months time from the start of treatment

[2020]

2020 that's why they are called a pilot trial!

Let me give you an example:

Spiriva is a drug used to open up your airways if you have emphysema. Its a capsule that goes into a device that you use to inhale it the content. It was developed by Boehringer Ingelheim. During their trials they used their own crappy device. But once the trials were finished, they paid Pfizer a whole bunch of money to develop their delivery device for them which is now called the "Handihaler".

The delivery devices will be modified and improved for launch. I promise you that

ugh... you still don't see the big picture. Fine, let's say injections are perfected - guess what, a thousand injections still won't make a difference.
Read my previous post about 20% actually being 4%.