Equol

[Dazza]

2020 has a point yeahyeahyeah. it has been proven to work in tests, yes not for hairloss but neither was finasteride originally.

if the drug binds to DHT, then it will effect hairloss one way or another as DHT does play a role.

[Davey Jones]

If anyone still wants a random guy's opinion on why equol would not have the same sexual side effects as fin, I'm a random guy with opinions.

First reason: Finasteride works by inhibiting the action of both isoforms of 5-ar. 5-ar is not just responsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT, but for the formation of a few other steroids, particularly neuroactive steroids that bind to the GABAA receptor. This complicates things past just eliminating DHT, and could cause a lose of "well being" and sexual side effects.

Second reason: When 5-ar is inhibited, that leaves unnatural amounts of testosterone in the bloodstream. If a person were to also have high amounts of aromatase (the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen), then the body's estrogen levels would increase. This could cause sexual dysfunction in men. Theoretically, the high levels of aromatase could have been previously countered by equally high levels of 5-ar, which when inhibited by fin, couldn't do it's job. This theory could account for why some people do fine on fin, and some people are ruined.

But the point is, neither of those things happen when you just neutralize DHT. DHT has a pretty ambiguous function past sexual maturation. I know for a fact that additional DHT (and DHT derivatives) can make you stronger, but it does seem that eliminating DHT in itself most often doesn't cause negative effects for already grown, healthy men.

Random guy's opinion over. I am not a doctor, yadda yadda yadda.

[BaldinLikeBaldwin]

First reason: Finasteride works by inhibiting the action of both isoforms of 5-ar. 5-ar is not just responsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT, but for the formation of a few other steroids, particularly neuroactive steroids that bind to the GABAA receptor. This complicates things past just eliminating DHT, and could cause a lose of "well being" and sexual side effects.

this is not true. finasteride's inhibition of 5-alpha reductase type I is negligible.

wiki claims 5%-7% of testosterone is converted to DHT...however I've read a study where levels of free testosterone were decreased in finasteride users... don't really know how to interpret that atm, I'm no expert by any means either

[neversaynever]

this is not true. finasteride's inhibition of 5-alpha reductase type I is negligible.

wiki claims 5%-7% of testosterone is converted to DHT...however I've read a study where levels of free testosterone were decreased in finasteride users... don't really know how to interpret that atm, I'm no expert by any means either

Why is it negligible? 5-alphase type 1 is reponsible for more than just converting T to DHT.....and fin is pretty effective at blocking it.

I think its variable amongst different people. We all have different DHT, T, 5-alpha, aromatase levels right? Given those varying levels, and the fact that our bodies try to adjust to fin by increasing and decreasing levels of other things...it seems near impossible to make a solid call on equol or fin.

[neversaynever]

If anyone still wants a random guy's opinion on why equol would not have the same sexual side effects as fin, I'm a random guy with opinions.

First reason: Finasteride works by inhibiting the action of both isoforms of 5-ar. 5-ar is not just responsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT, but for the formation of a few other steroids, particularly neuroactive steroids that bind to the GABAA receptor. This complicates things past just eliminating DHT, and could cause a lose of "well being" and sexual side effects.

Second reason: When 5-ar is inhibited, that leaves unnatural amounts of testosterone in the bloodstream. If a person were to also have high amounts of aromatase (the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen), then the body's estrogen levels would increase. This could cause sexual dysfunction in men. Theoretically, the high levels of aromatase could have been previously countered by equally high levels of 5-ar, which when inhibited by fin, couldn't do it's job. This theory could account for why some people do fine on fin, and some people are ruined.

But the point is, neither of those things happen when you just neutralize DHT. DHT has a pretty ambiguous function past sexual maturation. I know for a fact that additional DHT (and DHT derivatives) can make you stronger, but it does seem that eliminating DHT in itself most often doesn't cause negative effects for already grown, healthy men.

Random guy's opinion over. I am not a doctor, yadda yadda yadda.

Best explaination ive seen so far about equol and lack of side effects. Such a shame there have been no proper studies on this for hair loss.

Why would equol not be the perfect topical? Aside form in topicals, much can go to waste...it would go mostly to our hair. I read that equol is small enough to get into cells, something like that. So it could de-activate the DHT lurking around our follicles?

[jpm]

Best explaination ive seen so far about equol and lack of side effects. Such a shame there have been no proper studies on this for hair loss.

Why would equol not be the perfect topical? Aside form in topicals, much can go to waste...it would go mostly to our hair. I read that equol is small enough to get into cells, something like that. So it could de-activate the DHT lurking around our follicles?

Surely Equol in a pill would be the perfect solution? Its already being sold in a 1mg pill, but that dose needs to be more like 100mg so I've heard, to be effective.

Surely all a company needs to do is find a way of making Equol cheaper (economies of scale etc) stick 100mg in a pill, then it is a once a day pill. Easier said than done though obviously!!

[neversaynever]

From wiki...

S-equol preferentially activates estrogen receptor type β.

Anyone with knowledge know what that means?

[neversaynever]

Is there a trusted source of s-equol?

[UK_]

From wiki...

S-equol preferentially activates estrogen receptor type β.

Anyone with knowledge know what that means?

Dont know but sounds like its turning the user into a woman, accept more estrogen and deny androgens.

I dont like the sound of that, one of the things I dread most from all these treatments are their feminising effects.

[Davey Jones]

From wiki...

S-equol preferentially activates estrogen receptor type β.

Anyone with knowledge know what that means?

It means exactly as it sounds. Basically, it attaches to the same receptor site as estrogen. But it's not unheard of for compounds to attach to the same site but have different effects (or at least hugely variable degrees of the same effect). For instance, DHT and testosterone activate the same receptor sites.

You mentioned early something about levels of one thing effecting levels of other things, hormone feedback loops, basically. It seems in this case that because levels of serum DHT are not actually changed, feedback loops are not effected. At very least, levels of testosterone and estrogen shouldn't (or don't seem to be in studies) effected.

I want to admit again, I don't actually know much about this equol stuff. All I know is that it seems to be the reason bros used to say "Don't eat soy, that shit acts like estrogen in your body!" I'm mostly just guessing based on the little bit I know about the endocrine system in general.

[neversaynever]

It means exactly as it sounds. Basically, it attaches to the same receptor site as estrogen. But it's not unheard of for compounds to attach to the same site but have different effects (or at least hugely variable degrees of the same effect). For instance, DHT and testosterone activate the same receptor sites.

You mentioned early something about levels of one thing effecting levels of other things, hormone feedback loops, basically. It seems in this case that because levels of serum DHT are not actually changed, feedback loops are not effected. At very least, levels of testosterone and estrogen shouldn't (or don't seem to be in studies) effected.

I want to admit again, I don't actually know much about this equol stuff. All I know is that it seems to be the reason bros used to say "Don't eat soy, that shit acts like estrogen in your body!" I'm mostly just guessing based on the little bit I know about the endocrine system in general.

Ahh yea! I remember that one. "too much soy stuff makes you a woman". I guess no scientific link has been made.

Question is...does equol prefer to bind to DHT or estrogen receptor type β? I guess we'll never know. Id imagine its roaming DHT.

[neversaynever]

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_url?hl=en&q=http://discussion-home.1053854.n5.nabble.com/file/n4513747/Soy_Isoflavones.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm1qQtPl0-QoGDgANbjI_PuCET8_Og&oi=scholarr&ei=mRj9T6OzIMnctAaH9KGJBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CFkQgAMoAjAA

Some words on Equol binding to that receptor. I read some other articles too. Can anyone make sense of it?

Problem is, it binding to that receptor in men is a different matter, compared to women.

[jpm]

Is there a trusted source of s-equol?

Pretty sure Folexen is legit, but they only sell 1mg pills which is nowhere near enough.

I can't imagine they wouldn't be legit. After all if they were ''scamming'' people they would at least be selling 100mg pills not 1mg!

[neversaynever]

Pretty sure Folexen is legit, but they only sell 1mg pills which is nowhere near enough.

I can't imagine they wouldn't be legit. After all if they were ''scamming'' people they would at least be selling 100mg pills not 1mg!

2.5mg pills. They recommend taking 4 each day. 10mg is aparently enough to maintain. I think you can up that easily to 40mg and stay safe.

I got in touch with them, they say they have sent a batch to independant testing. They will release the certificate probably on the website or maybe a forum. And we are free to contact the testing facility.

Im just worried about equol binding to estrogen receptors and mimicing certain estrogen properties. There have been studies of equols love for this receptor. But its all studies for women going through menopause...

How on earth would we know how it effects men?

[jpm]

2.5mg pills. They recommend taking 4 each day. 10mg is aparently enough to maintain. I think you can up that easily to 40mg and stay safe.

I got in touch with them, they say they have sent a batch to independant testing. They will release the certificate probably on the website or maybe a forum. And we are free to contact the testing facility.

Im just worried about equol binding to estrogen receptors and mimicing certain estrogen properties. There have been studies of equols love for this receptor. But its all studies for women going through menopause...

How on earth would we know how it effects men?

sorry, my mistake it is 2.5mg a pill!! don't know where I got the 1mg figure from.

Would 10mg be anywhere near enough to make a difference?