Equol

[Jasari]

you forgot about testosterone which fin definitely affects while equol does not

But its still lowering DHT regardless of how.

[BaldinLikeBaldwin]

you forgot about testosterone which fin definitely affects while equol does not

how about this study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597532

"The serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin significantly increased, and the serum levels of free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) decreased significantly after 3-month supplementation."

[neversaynever]

how about this study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597532

"The serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin significantly increased, and the serum levels of free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) decreased significantly after 3-month supplementation."

That snippet doesnt tell the full story. First of, 18 of the 28 people were equol producers, 10 were not. Also, im not sure what a significant decrease is. Here are the figures from that study...

Estradiol (pg ml−1) Baseline: 25.0±5.6 3 months later: 25.2±6.5
SHBG (nmol l−1) Baseline: 52.2±19.8 3 months later: 61.2±19.9
DHT (ng ml−1) Baseline: 0.96±0.27 3 months later: 0.79±0.23
Free testosterone (pg ml−1) Baseline: 74.9±3.5 3 Months: 70.9±11.2
Total testosterone (pg ml−1) Baseline: 541.0±125.0 3 Months: 576.0±135.0

Heres a more detailed results table of levels for both non equol and equol producers in that study...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2834330/table/tbl4/

[neversaynever]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15067102/

Studying relating equol producers to prostate cancer. These results suggest that the ability of producing equol or equol itself is closely related to the lower incidence of prostate cancer. The results also suggest that a diet based on soybean isoflavones will be useful in preventing prostate cancer.

Given that fin was designed for exactly that, means that equol can do the exactly the same thing. Its just a question of dosage and sides.

[neversaynever]

how about this study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597532

"The serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin significantly increased, and the serum levels of free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) decreased significantly after 3-month supplementation."

Also from that very study...

All 28 volunteers completed the 3-month isoflavone administration as scheduled. No statistically significant adverse events were reported by the study participants. Diarrhea was the most frequently reported adverse event and occurred in 3 (11%) of the 28 participants. Two participants had diarrhea of grade 1 according to the Common Terminology Criteria for Adverse Events (v3.0) several times during the consecutive 2 days, and one complained of grade 1 diarrhea once only. No participant discontinued the study regimen or withdrew from the study because of these adverse events. The mean adherence rate was more than 99% during the whole study period. During the 3 months of Isofla A administration, all participants showed no marked change in their life styles.

Again this doesnt tell the full story. These guys were a mixture of non producers and producers. They were given soy isoflavones (60 mg daily). These produced slightly different results between the two groups.

If the study was of non equol producing men, having 60mg of equol daily, then it would be of more interest to us.

[neversaynever]

Now this is more interesting..

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00787007?term=equol&rank=3

A trial testing EQUOL at high doses.

These studies in healthy participants establish the first report on the plasma and urine levels of unconjugated S-equol after oral dosing. The rapid absorption and pharmacokinetic parameters show that S-equol exposure is linear with dose. There were no significant drug-related adverse events even at the highest dose tested of 320 mg; these data provide the information for dose selection for efficacy studies in postmenopausal women.

The study was for both men and women. Tolerated well upto 320mg. Cant seem to find the full study write-up though. I believe they did multiple trials with varying doses each day. Would be very beneficial for us if someone can hunt down more details from their results.

[2020]

how about this study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597532

"The serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin significantly increased, and the serum levels of free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) decreased significantly after 3-month supplementation."

those people were taking SOY ISOFLAVONES which some people are able to convert into equol but it's not the equol itself that's causing changes in those other hormones

[Jairus]

Is LilPauly using Eqoul already?

How are you getting on with it LP?

J

[Jairus]

Also....

2020 I think you mentioned 3mg reduced DHT by 10-15%.

Im not up to speed on high levels of DHT suppression, but if you were to increase the tablets to ensure a level of 90%+ suppression and even tho they say equol doesnt have side effects, would that high a level result in anything?

Thanks

[Jasari]

Also....

2020 I think you mentioned 3mg reduced DHT by 10-15%.

Im not up to speed on high levels of DHT suppression, but if you were to increase the tablets to ensure a level of 90%+ suppression and even tho they say equol doesnt have side effects, would that high a level result in anything?

Thanks

Of course it will. The fact remains that DHT has its function in the body. I'm honestly not sure how anyone could feel that you will not have side effects lowering DHT by up to 90%.

[Jairus]

Of course it will. The fact remains that DHT has its function in the body. I'm honestly not sure how anyone could feel that you will not have side effects lowering DHT by up to 90%.

sigh.....so how much can we reduce it by and in conjunction reduce any potential sides?

We have been around this a million times with Fin, surely the fact that equol doesnt affect the reductase means that it has a potentially safer side effect profile no?

It seems we cant win.

[Jairus]

Can someone tell me of a topical that reduces DHT by a considerable amount with negligible sides effects?

Not interested in messing with hormones.

possible conjecture accepted.

[neversaynever]

sigh.....so how much can we reduce it by and in conjunction reduce any potential sides?

We have been around this a million times with Fin, surely the fact that equol doesnt affect the reductase means that it has a potentially safer side effect profile no?

It seems we cant win.

Logically yes, equol should have far less side effects (if any).

It has been tested upto 320mg for a short period, no side effects reported. We're looking at around 25mg for a 70% DHT reduction (guessing!). Noones got the info. Only way to know is to try, ensuring you check your hormone levels before, and after one month of equol.

In august 2013 this trial will finish...

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00962390?term=equol&rank=1

around 124 taking varied doses of equol. This trial (focusing on the prostate) should tell us whats happening. If you dont want to take any 'risks', just wait.

Im told that equol can be used as a topical, but there is no info as to how effective it will be.

Equol also has other health benefits. Fin has no other health benefits.

[Conpecia]

No way I can wait another whole year for those results! Guess I'm gonna start with a low dosage and see if I can just maintain, then up the dosage after that trial concludes.

[Conpecia]

Of course it will. The fact remains that DHT has its function in the body. I'm honestly not sure how anyone could feel that you will not have side effects lowering DHT by up to 90%.

I don't think equol "lowers" DHT in the same manner as fin. It prevents DHT from attaching to hair follicles, but does not lower the amount if I recall correctly.