Equol

[lilpauly]

Is LilPauly using Eqoul already?

How are you getting on with it LP?

J

My equal should arrive anyday now

[neversaynever]

I don't think equol "lowers" DHT in the same manner as fin. It prevents DHT from attaching to hair follicles, but does not lower the amount if I recall correctly.

It does lower the amount of serum DHT, just with a different method to fin. Fin stops the production of DHT by blocking 5a. Equol attaches itself strongly to DHT, after which it is no longer DHT.

It can also pass cellular membranes, so it can enter the prostate and hair follicles and attach itself to DHT there. A few studies have confirmed that DHT levels are lowered.

[UK_]

It does lower the amount of serum DHT, just with a different method to fin. Fin stops the production of DHT by blocking 5a. Equol attaches itself strongly to DHT, after which it is no longer DHT.

It can also pass cellular membranes, so it can enter the prostate and hair follicles and attach itself to DHT there. A few studies have confirmed that DHT levels are lowered.

If DHT levels are lowered wont the body compensate by producing more test? And if 5AR is the same more test will be converted to DHT, requiring more and more equol. I also dont see how this method mitigates the sides experienced during the use of Fin... just looks like a different version of fin - might aswel call it "Dutasteride II".

[UK_]

I don't think equol "lowers" DHT in the same manner as fin. It prevents DHT from attaching to hair follicles, but does not lower the amount if I recall correctly.

Why the heck to we have DHT receptors on our hair follicles? What kind of God would design that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4238NN8HMgQ

[bananana]

If DHT levels are lowered wont the body compensate by producing more test? And if 5AR is the same more test will be converted to DHT, requiring more and more equol. I also dont see how this method mitigates the sides experienced during the use of Fin... just looks like a different version of fin - might aswel call it "Dutasteride II".

This is just an opinion? Any science behind this?

just asking.

[neversaynever]

If DHT levels are lowered wont the body compensate by producing more test? And if 5AR is the same more test will be converted to DHT, requiring more and more equol. I also dont see how this method mitigates the sides experienced during the use of Fin... just looks like a different version of fin - might aswel call it "Dutasteride II".

5ar is respsonsible for more than just converting T to DHT. Therefore, blocking it also effects other products of 5ar <<<< this is quite important, no?

The body needs to convert a certain amount of free T to DHT. Excess T? By blocking 5ar...the body is not able to do so, and therefore T levels rise.

Equol allows the conversion from T to DHT, which the body needs. That in itself makes it potentially safer than Fin.

Equol producers have a significantly low incidence rate of prostate cancer. Fin was originally produced for the prostate. Prostate cancer is highly dependant on DHT attaching to receptors.

Ausio Pharmaceuticals claim to have tested equol upto 320mg safely, albeit for a short period. they are currently testing it in men upto 150mg for prostate health.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21341397

What people need to understand that there is a huge difference in blocking 5ar and de-activating just DHT. Though the outcome is the same, the mechanism will get very different reactions from the body.

blocking 5ar effects more than just DHT. 5ar does MORE than just converting T to DHT. The body needs this process of T to DHT. if its not able to do this, T levels rise.

"In vivo equol treatment significantly decreased rat prostate weights and serum 5alpha-DHT levels but did not alter LH, testosterone, and estradiol levels"

Now this is for rats of course. But I have read other studies indicating the same. This all suggests that it is the blocking of 5ar that effects T levels, not the drop in DHT levels. Now, noone knows for sure, which is why Equol deserves more attention.

I believe T levels will be effected somewhat, and probably varies from person to person. But i have no doubt that blocking 5ar is more harmful than de-activating just DHT. Lets be realistic, everything has some side effect. We're talking about the possibility of equol being FAR MORE safer than fin.

Thats my non expert opinion on it.

[TheDude]

Hay neversaynever good explanation, much appreciated..

Its the increase in T levels and thereby the increase in E levels that are dangerous.. Hence gyno etc

[neversaynever]

Hay neversaynever good explanation, much appreciated..

Its the increase in T levels and thereby the increase in E levels that are dangerous.. Hence gyno etc

Thats no explaination. Just my 'hunch' . Seems no company is interested in proper trials. Such a shame.

[jpm]

anyone got Equol yet??

[gutted]

testosterone/dht/5ar reductase is not the problem. excess of these IS the problem.

dht/androgens regulate the hair cycle through expression of cox2 and possibly other unknown enzymes which are involved in the hair cycle.

so therefore people with excess of either andorgens/5ar enzymes would exccessiveley shed hair through -> excess cox2 initiated via androgens -> this would show up as thinning/balndess

people with "normal levels" of androgens/5ar would cycle hair in a way that baldness/thinning/minutuarisation is not viewable


The reason why people with "normal levels" of androgens do not experience minutuarising hairs is that their cox 2 levels downregulate during regeneration.

find a way to block/lower cox2 and you would stop hair shedding/baldness dead in its tracks.

[neversaynever]

testosterone/dht/5ar reductase is not the problem. excess of these IS the problem.

dht/androgens regulate the hair cycle through expression of cox2 and possibly other unknown enzymes which are involved in the hair cycle.

so therefore people with excess of either andorgens/5ar enzymes would exccessiveley shed hair through -> excess cox2 initiated via androgens -> this would show up as thinning/balndess

people with "normal levels" of androgens/5ar would cycle hair in a way that baldness/thinning/minutuarisation is not viewable


The reason why people with "normal levels" of androgens do not experience minutuarising hairs is that their cox 2 levels downregulate during regeneration.

find a way to block/lower cox2 and you would stop hair shedding/baldness dead in its tracks.

Unfortunately, i dont have time to find a way to block cox2...im near the point of no return! are their any drugs in the pipeline?

[gutted]

Unfortunately, i dont have time to find a way to block cox2...im near the point of no return! are their any drugs in the pipeline?

its possible the "point of no return" does not exist and in actual fact -> time and cox2 blocking will likeley regernarate your hair including stopping you from going bald.

[2020]

its possible the "point of no return" does not exist and in actual fact -> time and cox2 blocking will likeley regernarate your hair including stopping you from going bald.

what are you personally doing to address this COX-2 problem?

[gutted]

what are you personally doing to address this COX-2 problem?

either directly lower cox 2 or indirectly -> lower dht to acceptable levels having the knock on effect on cox 2 expression.

sulfasalzine, benaxoprofen, curcumin, saw palmetto (certain brands), 9 grams MSM, and im sure theres many many stuff out there that does this potently i.e someone needs to trial d-flame supplement to see if it has any effect on hair.

propecia may be the fda approved way to go but certainly not a wise decsion IMO.

[neversaynever]

either directly lower cox 2 or indirectly -> lower dht to acceptable levels having the knock on effect on cox 2 expression.

sulfasalzine, benaxoprofen, curcumin, saw palmetto (certain brands), 9 grams MSM, and im sure theres many many stuff out there that does this potently i.e someone needs to trial d-flame supplement to see if it has any effect on hair.

propecia may be the fda approved way to go but certainly not a wise decsion IMO.

Id rather take equol, at least until there is more progress with pgd2 and cox2 stuff. You may well be right, but there isnt any compound available at this point (thats known to maintain hair). Its another interesting avenue though.

Also, i dont see how an oral cox 2 suppressor is a good choice. If we took oral medicine strong enough to block cox 2 in the scalp, would that not be massively dangerous for us?