Equol

[jpm]

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00962390

This company is testing S-equol for BPH, they are in Phase 2 hopefully completing in aug 2013

I believe that BPH is also attributed to high DHT so maybe this can shed some light as to how s-equol interacts with DHT.

Also, if its produced for BPH there is a chance the price will drop dramatically and it can be prescribed off the label, like dut, for MPB

[neversaynever]

sorry, my mistake it is 2.5mg a pill!! don't know where I got the 1mg figure from.

Would 10mg be anywhere near enough to make a difference?

Well, their 'trial' seemed to indicate this. +2% increase in hair density for equol group. Around 2% decrease for control group.

They counted hairs in a 1cm2 area in the temple. Not sure how reliable that is. They said they tried the very best to mark the same area after 6 months!

Aparently, no sides reported.

Read another study where 10mg equol reduced womens hot flushes significantly, in frequency. Brilliant....

10mg is tiny. its been tested as far as 100mg safely I think. Id want to try it at 40 or 50mg, i dont care about the price.

But i want to know about this estrogen receptor in men. Maybe natural equol producers have a body adapted for it somehow?

I've read plenty of articles dismissing the idea that soy products feminize a man, unless someone is going overkill on it. I mean, really overkill. But like everything in this world, too much of anything is bad for you.

Equol is very very very interesting!

[jpm]

Well, their 'trial' seemed to indicate this. +2% increase in hair density for equol group. Around 2% decrease for control group.

They counted hairs in a 1cm2 area in the temple. Not sure how reliable that is. They said they tried the very best to mark the same area after 6 months!

Aparently, no sides reported.

Read another study where 10mg equol reduced womens hot flushes significantly, in frequency. Brilliant....

10mg is tiny. its been tested as far as 100mg safely I think. Id want to try it at 40 or 50mg, i dont care about the price.

But i want to know about this estrogen receptor in men. Maybe natural equol producers have a body adapted for it somehow?

I've read plenty of articles dismissing the idea that soy products feminize a man, unless someone is going overkill on it. I mean, really overkill. But like everything in this world, too much of anything is bad for you.

Equol is very very very interesting!

2% is something....but its not really going to help the average MPB sufferer

[BaldinLikeBaldwin]

2% is something....but its not really going to help the average MPB sufferer

Yes but it would also mean that no hair was lost if their study is correct

you have to learn how to crawl before you learn how to walk


however, 6 months was it? that's not a very long time

now if equol could be proven to maintain hair or better over a period of say 2-years well then..

[neversaynever]

Learning more and more about the soy myth!

First of all. It reduces DHT WITHOUT A DOUBT. So of course it can help reduce, slow down, stop the balding process. The question arises of dosage...

As for side effects, my big concern is the reputation that soy products increase estrogen levels. Indeed equol binds to an estrogen receptor..BUT

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17585029

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/soy-protein-isolate-reduces-dht-in.html

I found more, that I didnt bookmark. It seems there is a big potential that equol affects only DHT, with minimal effects on T levels and other things. Its claimed that equol does not change the expression of estrogen receptor beta. Possibly a slight rise in estradol levels. Im not reading anything that scares me here...

"Serum DHT was significantly reduced following the consumption of both a low-isoflavone and high-isoflavone soy protein isolate compared to a milk protein isolate. The reductions were 9.4% and 15%, respectively. The DHT/testosterone ratio was also decreased by 9.0% and 14%, respectively.

The reduction in the DHT/testosterone ratio suggests an inhibition of 5-alpha-reductase. However, 3-alpha-AG, a marker of 5-alpha-reductase activity, was not significantly affected. Levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) were also not significantly different between the diets"

Opinions?

[jpm]

equol could be fin replacement and better!

its frustrating that we have this drug but can't get it (in sufficient quantities) to be effective. Is anyone using the 10mg a day from folexen?

[Jasari]

DHT has strong positive effects on the central nervous system and increased resistance to psychological and physical stress. It also ensures proper libido.
Regardless of the fact that S-Equol binds to DHT it still results in less DHT in the body. It sucks that we have hairloss and that we know DHT is a primary contributor but it doesnt change the fact that DHT plays an important role in the body. The human body doesn't contain androgens and hormones just for kicks, they serve a purpose.

[neversaynever]

DHT has strong positive effects on the central nervous system and increased resistance to psychological and physical stress. It also ensures proper libido.
Regardless of the fact that S-Equol binds to DHT it still results in less DHT in the body. It sucks that we have hairloss and that we know DHT is a primary contributor but it doesnt change the fact that DHT plays an important role in the body. The human body doesn't contain androgens and hormones just for kicks, they serve a purpose.

Actually, from what I've read, noone really knows fully DHTs connection with libido. There are guys who have a increased drive on fin. Some guys with low drive. Many are not effected sexually by reducing their DHT.

I believe the hormone balance (which varies greatly from person to person) is far too complicated to make a generalisation.

A person with natively low DHT levels might see more side effects on fin than guys with higher DHT levels. Guys with high estrogen levels might see more sides than guys with low levels, as DHT combats estrogen.

Equol also has other positive health benefits, quite a few actually. So the question is, if equol can be as effective as fin in reducing DHT...which would you prefer to use?

Blocking 5a (fin) effects other hormones, not just DHT. I think its fair to say that DHT is not the primary contributor to sex drive, there are other things at play. Obvious evidence for this is guys that are on fin, who see no decrease in sex drive.

Equol is potentially the only treatment that effects DHT only.

[yeahyeahyeah]

Actually, from what I've read, noone really knows fully DHTs connection with libido. There are guys who have a increased drive on fin. Some guys with low drive. Many are not effected sexually by reducing their DHT.

I believe the hormone balance (which varies greatly from person to person) is far too complicated to make a generalisation.

A person with natively low DHT levels might see more side effects on fin than guys with higher DHT levels. Guys with high estrogen levels might see more sides than guys with low levels, as DHT combats estrogen.

Equol also has other positive health benefits, quite a few actually. So the question is, if equol can be as effective as fin in reducing DHT...which would you prefer to use?

Blocking 5a (fin) effects other hormones, not just DHT. I think its fair to say that DHT is not the primary contributor to sex drive, there are other things at play. Obvious evidence for this is guys that are on fin, who see no decrease in sex drive.

Equol is potentially the only treatment that effects DHT only.

I really wish people would hurry up and try this shit. If it works - I will buy it. Rather then stating opinions, which HELPS nobody!

[garethbale]

Where can you buy equol? How do you get hold of it?

[Jasari]

There is no doubt the body requires DHT otherwise it wouldn't produce it. DHT is the most anabolic hormone in the body so it definately affects muscle growth and development aswell.

[gutted]

there is no doubt dht and androgens are needed. what is NOT needed is excess amounts of this hormone or the excess amounts of the enzymes that create this hormone.

The key is maintaing a healthy equilibrium between these hormones.

[BaldinLikeBaldwin]

There is no doubt the body requires DHT otherwise it wouldn't produce it. DHT is the most anabolic hormone in the body so it definately affects muscle growth and development aswell.

where are your sources?

do you really think this medicine would exist for androgenic alopecia if DHT was vital for muscle growth etc

[2020]

There is no doubt the body requires DHT otherwise it wouldn't produce it. DHT is the most anabolic hormone in the body so it definately affects muscle growth and development aswell.

you forgot about testosterone which fin definitely affects while equol does not

[Jasari]

where are your sources?

do you really think this medicine would exist for androgenic alopecia if DHT was vital for muscle growth etc

^Yes because there is currently no cure to hairloss and the majority will take something regardless of other effects. In saying this I didn't say that you cannot gain muscle without DHT, I stated that DHT is important for muscle growth. DHT is active in the CNS, which is pivotel in increasing strength.

Testosterone works with DHT to make you stronger and bigger. To get stronger, you must either (1) increase CNS efficiency (get more efficient with the muscle structure you already have), (2) add more muscle tissue, or (3) some combination. Building additional muscle tissue is an expensive metabolic process. Therefore, the body would first prefer to increase CNS efficiency before being forced to add additional muscle. This is often why strength increases rapidly as a beginner, but muscle increases are slower.

Having optimum DHT will help you reach your CNS efficiency ceilings a lot faster which is obviously beneficial for developing strength and power; Cornerstones of athleticism. With lower levels of DHT in the body there is no scientific explanation to rationalize why performance would not decrease.

A good article on DHT: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm