If it were PGD2.....

[gutted]

THIS WAS A YES OR NO QUESTION!

follicle shrinks EVERYTIME a follicle enters telogen phase AND enlarges again as it enters anagen phase, AM I RIGHT?

what do you mean skrinks? it doesn shrink, the hairs eject itself out during telogen.


in mpb, the subsequent, anagen hair regrows thinner/minituraised

in people without mpb, the subsequent anagen hair regrows normally and thick, rather than thinner/minturaised.

[2020]

telogen is just a resting phase.

THIS WAS A YES OR NO QUESTION!

follicle shrinks EVERYTIME a follicle enters telogen phase AND enlarges again as it enters anagen phase, AM I RIGHT?

[gutted]

ugh....

NON-BALDING PERSON:
anagen phase == follicle size: 500
telogen phase == follicle size: 100

do you agree that upon hair entering telogen phase, its follicle miniaturizes to 1/5 or whatever of its size? yes or no?

telogen is just a resting phase.



theres probably a tug of war between the prostglandins going on thats preventing full regenaration during "early to mid anagen phase" in the diagram.

pgd2 is also upregulated inflammatory sites. Since inflamation is also part of mpb this would in effect triple pgd2 levels in balding scalp!!! Normal levels of pgd2 are not harmful at all, they regulate the hair cycle, its the excess pgd2 from the infalamtion which is the problem!

[2020]

dude what are you talking about???

i just found the answer to my own question

ugh....

NON-BALDING PERSON:
anagen phase == follicle size: 500
telogen phase == follicle size: 100

do you agree that upon hair entering telogen phase, its follicle miniaturizes to 1/5 or whatever of its size? yes or no?

[gutted]

right right right, but you do agree that:
in NON-BALDING PEOPLE, when follicle leaves ANAGEN PHASE it becomes "miniaturized" even though the person is not balding???
Since that person is not balding, his follicles in telogen phase will start getting bigger and producing anagen hair once again.
FOR BALDING PEOPLE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
GRADUALLY, for whatever reason, there is less and less of that something that grows and enlarges follicle from telogen phase to anagen phase in balding people.



BASICALLY: your follicle size changes from 10% in telogen phase and 100% size in anagen phase.
For balding people, that function is broken. It will go something like:

10% telogen, 90% anagen
10% telogen, 80% anagen

.... on and on until it's 10% / 10% which is when the hair is invisible


^ this is happening, do you agree?

dude what are you talking about???

i just found the answer to my own question

mouse, K14-Ptgs2, which targets prostaglandin-endoperoxide synthase 2 expression to the skin, demonstrates
elevated levels of PGD2 in the skin and develops alopecia, follicular miniaturization, and sebaceous gland hyperplasia,
which are all hallmarks of human AGA. These results define PGD2 as an inhibitor of hair growth in AGA and
suggest the PGD2-GPR44 pathway as a potential target for treatment.
-

theres probably a tug of war relationship going on somewhere during the regerneration phase causing the hairs to grow out thinner progressiveley.

Anyway you need to start blocking pgd2/or cox 2.

[2020]

The truth is, nobody knows.

This is going round in circles.

no one knows what?

[2020]

dude i posted this on HS, increasing pgd2, did it result in minturisation/thinning hair or alopecia?

Theres a big difference between minuturisation and alopecia.

what the hell is HS? alopecia is the phenomenon of thinning hair which yes exceeds the normal number of 10% or something



right right right, but you do agree that:
in NON-BALDING PEOPLE, when follicle leaves ANAGEN PHASE it becomes "miniaturized" even though the person is not balding???
Since that person is not balding, his follicles in telogen phase will start getting bigger and producing anagen hair once again.
FOR BALDING PEOPLE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
GRADUALLY, for whatever reason, there is less and less of that something that grows and enlarges follicle from telogen phase to anagen phase in balding people.



BASICALLY: your follicle size changes from 10% in telogen phase and 100% size in anagen phase.
For balding people, that function is broken. It will go something like:

10% telogen, 90% anagen
10% telogen, 80% anagen

.... on and on until it's 10% / 10% which is when the hair is invisible


^ this is happening, do you agree?

[yeahyeahyeah]

dude i posted this on HS, increasing pgd2, did it result in minturisation/thinning hair or alopecia?

Theres a big difference between minuturisation and alopecia.

Minutrisation is progressive, thinning hair, however alopecia is because of an increased rate of telogen hairs.

To me it sounds like increasing pgd2 in the mouse resulted in hairs becoming telogen, rather than any "progressive" thinning.

Im thinking that "progressive, thinning" hair is the result of a different phenomenon than pgd2!

The truth is, nobody knows.

This is going round in circles.

[gutted]

telogen phase ==> body signals more PGD2 -> follicle shrinks

dude i posted this on HS, increasing pgd2, did it result in minturisation/thinning hair or alopecia?

Theres a big difference between minuturisation and alopecia.

Minutrisation is progressive, thinning hair, however alopecia is because of an increased rate of telogen hairs.

To me it sounds like increasing pgd2 in the mouse resulted in hairs becoming telogen, rather than any "progressive" thinning.

Im thinking that "progressive, thinning" hair is the result of a different phenomenon than pgd2!

[2020]

pgd2 is probably not a problem, its part of the cycle, in telogen it will be prodcued "excessivley" or "upregulated" Most of the hairs ina balding scalp are in fact in telogen, which is why i think its only normal to find it.

In "normal" hairs, when they enter anagen the pgd2 will be downregulated after being signalled by whatever it is that signals anagen.

right! Which is exactly what I said:

anagen phase ==> body signals less PGD2 -> hair grows no problem
telogen phase ==> body signals more PGD2 -> follicle shrinks

PGD2 is the result of a balding scalp and not the cause.

NOW, when follicle enters telogen phase, it actually becomes very small(miniaturization). YES! Follicles do become very small each time it changes phase, BUT FOR NORMAL PEOPLE, it regenerates to its full size once again and for bald people it doesn't...

Histogen CAN make those follicles big again and it can move all your hairs into anagen phase, BUT THE EFFECTS WILL BE AS TEMPORARY AS INDIVIDUAL'S HAIR ANAGEN PHASE.
Once it goes into telogen phase, something will have to regenerate it again but that something is "broken" in balding people so there won't be a second anagen phase...

Histogen --> One extra anagen phase.

^ if this is true, then I'm done with this forum and hair loss in general because it's all hopeless and I'll probably just embrace my hair loss...

[gutted]

obviously it is.... PGD2's whole purpose is to keep hair down in its resting state. In balding people PGD2 is produced excessively and constantly how could Histogen tell your body to stop doing that?

pgd2 is probably not a problem, its part of the cycle, in telogen it will be prodcued "excessivley" or "upregulated" Most of the hairs ina balding scalp are in fact in telogen, which is why i think its only normal to find it.

In "normal" hairs, when they enter anagen the pgd2 will be downregulated after being signalled by whatever it is that signals anagen.

its in that cox study i linked to -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179

The hair regenerates itself after every 3/5 year cycle. This is very unique, and clues to how it regenerates will provide treatments for scarless wound regeneration.

Histogen obviously affects the pgd2 balance but indirectly.

You should read this -> http://www.fst.ohio-state.edu/Pubs/70.pdf
IMO its the key to sucessful hair regeneration.

Im going to trial it out topically also, but i dont know what to use topically as a cox 2 blocker.

[2020]

histogen wont "fix" the pgd2 problem, because it isnt a problem.

Histogen will stimulate the growth of hairs, possibly via stimulating the hairs to regenenerate. Bear in mind, histogen (regenica) is used to aid in scarless healing. This makes me think it works via wound regeneration.

obviously it is.... PGD2's whole purpose is to keep hair down in its resting state. In balding people PGD2 is produced excessively and constantly how could Histogen tell your body to stop doing that?

Depending on whethere your hormonal levels have balanced out as you age, the histogen hairs can last forever if not then the hairs will degenerate after another 10/20 years in which case you will need to repeat treatment.

^ I truly hope that is true but I personally don't believe it... miniaturization has nothing to do with MPB, sure Histogen will enlarge those follicles once again but as the follicle goes into resting phase again it will not regenerate in its full size again... this sucks

[neversaynever]

Is it possible that excess PGD2 is THE RESULT of follicles being in resting phase and not the other way around?

gutted: what topical cox-2 inhibitors are you using right now?

I cant see why it would be the result.

PGD2 is found in non balding scalps, just in lower numbers, which makes me assume its part of the hair cycle process, obviously the telegan stage. By my logic, with the info at hand, it seems that whatever should be controlling pgd2 levels is not doings it job (maybe thats where dht comes in). So PGd2 builds and builds, hair cycles become quicker, hairs thin, and we all end up on damn forums talking about it.

HSC might work because something in it is neutralizing pgd2, or the growth factors are telling the cells to decrease pgd2 levels. Something like that...

Thus, it restores some kind of balance, for how long..no one knows.

Really wish someone from Histogen would give their thoughts on PG levels!

[gutted]

so how exactly will Histogen fix that problem with excessive PGD2 on your scalp?

histogen wont "fix" the pgd2 problem, because it isnt a problem.

Histogen will stimulate the growth of hairs, possibly via stimulating the hairs to regenenerate. Bear in mind, histogen (regenica) is used to aid in scarless healing. This makes me think it works via wound regeneration.

Depending on whethere your hormonal levels have balanced out as you age, the histogen hairs can last forever if not then the hairs will degenerate after another 10/20 years in which case you will need to repeat treatment.

[2020]

no i dont think so, i think its part of the hair follicle cycle.

i havent started any topical ones yet.

im on an internal cox 2 blocker.

so how exactly will Histogen fix that problem with excessive PGD2 on your scalp?