Where are the phase IIb results for Bimatoprost?

[champpy]

2014comeonalready, i love your optimism man. Listening to you keeps a small glimmer of hope alive. But man your theory is almost as complex as bimatoprosts "complexities". Really we are basing all hope on two second hand accounts (one from an unnamed investment spokesperson and the other from a guys whos derm dr supposedly works close to allergen.) Not saying they are, but both stories could be false. Oh and even spencer on his show said he heard positive things regarding bim, but gives nothing more than that. Then the fact that this drugs results are being hidden better than than the existence of aliens and ufos.
Like fox mulder would say, i want to believe. But man, sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. And now the simplest answer is they have nothing to report because it just didnt work.
i hope im wrong. I pray youre right. But i just dont think bim is the answer. With the availability of bim nowadays, somebody out there with abundant cashflow should have used enough to have results. But still we never hear stories of anyone growing scalp hair on this stuff. Not one person.
Theres just no evidence. Just speculation. Im ready to forget bim and move on to the next false hope

[breakbot]

Still no evidence that bim has failed. Technically, the last trial ended in September, because that's when the primary outcome measure was taken. It has been a very long time, and still, they haven't release results to investors. There is a difference between releasing results to the public and releasing them to investors. Something else is going on here.

When BiqqieSmalls (a shareholder) called them a few months ago, he was told that the results haven't been released yet because of the "complexity of bimatoprost." Also, that they would be released "in a few months." A "few" is a pretty loose term, but it could mean 3-5 months. It's been a very long time, and they could have said it failed.

Investor relations could have dissuaded him and said it didn't do well, without giving any actual details or figures. Instead, they were like a stone wall. There is no reason for this company to be afraid of poor results from this drug for the scalp, because it clearly works for eyelashes and glaucoma. Therefore it's not a total failure. No loss to say it doesn't work for the scalp. But they haven't said that, and they haven't said that for nearly a year.

I have said all along that they do not want the word getting out that it works, because labs, individuals, and maybe other reputable companies would go ahead and purchase bimatoprost in bulk and formulate it themselves. I've also pointed out that in the past, when they were developing latisse, many people tried to get their hands on it (as noted by David Pyott, former CEO of Allergan). This is MPB, not eyelashes, the demand would be greater. The main deterrent is that bim powder is very expensive, and nobody knows if it works. By not letting anyone know, they have the power. They will not release results until they have a product ready to market or sell.

Bim is not dead, but if nothing is announced between now and January, then it is dead imo.

Bla bla...Why did they mention then the other drugs that will enter phase 3? For example the treatment of glaukoma.Wouldn't then those people try to buy from another sources this stuff to treat their disease? What makes hairloss unique?
You overrate hairloss market.If you do your homework as you say then you will see that the most companies don't release results of failed projects.

[Farkhairloss]

This waiting is bullsh t. Do we know what percent they are or were trialling for scalp hair? Is this Kane who a lot of guys are getting there RU off capable of making a high contrate of Bim for a group buy at a reasonable price? Or if its that expensive to make we could chip in and get a nominated member to trial it?

[allTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

This waiting is bullsh t. Do we know what percent they are or were trialling for scalp hair? Is this Kane who a lot of guys are getting there RU off capable of making a high contrate of Bim for a group buy at a reasonable price? Or if its that expensive to make we could chip in and get a nominated member to trial it?

Recently posted a thread asking the same thing, 300 people have read it, no one bothered to reply.

[maver1ck]

Still no evidence that bim has failed. Technically, the last trial ended in September, because that's when the primary outcome measure was taken. It has been a very long time, and still, they haven't release results to investors. There is a difference between releasing results to the public and releasing them to investors. Something else is going on here.

When BiqqieSmalls (a shareholder) called them a few months ago, he was told that the results haven't been released yet because of the "complexity of bimatoprost." Also, that they would be released "in a few months." A "few" is a pretty loose term, but it could mean 3-5 months. It's been a very long time, and they could have said it failed.

Investor relations could have dissuaded him and said it didn't do well, without giving any actual details or figures. Instead, they were like a stone wall. There is no reason for this company to be afraid of poor results from this drug for the scalp, because it clearly works for eyelashes and glaucoma. Therefore it's not a total failure. No loss to say it doesn't work for the scalp. But they haven't said that, and they haven't said that for nearly a year.

I have said all along that they do not want the word getting out that it works, because labs, individuals, and maybe other reputable companies would go ahead and purchase bimatoprost in bulk and formulate it themselves. I've also pointed out that in the past, when they were developing latisse, many people tried to get their hands on it (as noted by David Pyott, former CEO of Allergan). This is MPB, not eyelashes, the demand would be greater. The main deterrent is that bim powder is very expensive, and nobody knows if it works. By not letting anyone know, they have the power. They will not release results until they have a product ready to market or sell.

Bim is not dead, but if nothing is announced between now and January, then it is dead imo.

I love the optimism. I dont necessarily think its dead in the water either but to play devils advocate with the whole "investor relation" point for a second. Why would a member of the company straight up tell an investor that a product has failed, especially a product that people are counting on to become a reality. I'm not saying that she was just placating him but its not out of the realm of possibility.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

I love the optimism. I dont necessarily think its dead in the water either but to play devils advocate with the whole "investor relation" point for a second. Why would a member of the company straight up tell an investor that a product has failed, especially a product that people are counting on to become a reality. I'm not saying that she was just placating him but its not out of the realm of possibility.

I've thought the same thing, but I think that investor relations person was honest and doing a good job. He called two days earlier and she refused to give any information, but promised to dig deeper. Two days later, she called and explained everything which I've written about. She didn't have to do anything, but she went out of her way to find out, then call him back. Clearly, he was very interested in the scalp product, and could've told him "I wouldn't get your hopes up on this particular product."

Just to point out, what I'm saying that it is fishy, that after all this time, they still haven't released results or said this particular application has failed. Especially when there are two other uses for this product that do work. Meanwhile, you have people on here who've been to dermatologists offices that claim to work closely with Allergan and say they are planning to release a product based on bim for hair soon, like the summer. Then there's also Spencer Kobren who's said he'd been hearing that the last trial did really well. He was confident enough to say, "It's going to be great that we're going to have another weapon in our arsenal."

My hope is waning. But like I said, if nothing is announced between now and January, it is dead. Right now it's just a waiting game.

[Tomtom21]

This is my speculation and yes it is a speculation so take it as you'd like. 2014 tell me your opinion. I find it hard to believe it is dead when they have bim for hair loss listed as one of there products in late stage development for aesthetics in their presentation. Further review shows that they made mention of kythera's product aga for R&D. So at that alone i dont feel that bim is dead in the water. Further speculation and again i could completely out of my element here as i have linited knowledge on patents, but wasnt part of the issue with bim patent rights? Whereas, other companies would be capable of producing it? If thats the case maybe they intend to make a dual topical of seti + bim and patent it together as their acquisition of kythera grants them exclusive rights to anti pgd2. Of course they would still need to prove efficacy of seti which for us would delay development of a product. However, im sure i read on this thread before a quote from cots saying a topical of pgd2 blocker would be ideal and that in conjunction with bim would be the "foot off the brake and flooring the gas." Again guys this is all speculation and quite optimistic as we are all in the same boat here. Personally i have my faith in samumed as all these stem cell and regeneration studies point to the wnt pathway. Cheers fellas hopefully good news is on the horizon! Hang in there!

[burtandernie]

Is BIM going to provide some protective effect against androgens too? I thought someone mentioned it might just be needed a few times a week instead of everyday. I guess that includes the huge assumption that it works or ever comes out.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

This is my speculation and yes it is a speculation so take it as you'd like. 2014 tell me your opinion. I find it hard to believe it is dead when they have bim for hair loss listed as one of there products in late stage development for aesthetics in their presentation. Further review shows that they made mention of kythera's product aga for R&D. So at that alone i dont feel that bim is dead in the water. Further speculation and again i could completely out of my element here as i have linited knowledge on patents, but wasnt part of the issue with bim patent rights? Whereas, other companies would be capable of producing it? If thats the case maybe they intend to make a dual topical of seti + bim and patent it together as their acquisition of kythera grants them exclusive rights to anti pgd2. Of course they would still need to prove efficacy of seti which for us would delay development of a product. However, im sure i read on this thread before a quote from cots saying a topical of pgd2 blocker would be ideal and that in conjunction with bim would be the "foot off the brake and flooring the gas." Again guys this is all speculation and quite optimistic as we are all in the same boat here. Personally i have my faith in samumed as all these stem cell and regeneration studies point to the wnt pathway. Cheers fellas hopefully good news is on the horizon! Hang in there!

Where did you see that?

Anyway, I do agree with you on most points. Glad some ppl here are informed.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Is BIM going to provide some protective effect against androgens too? I thought someone mentioned it might just be needed a few times a week instead of everyday. I guess that includes the huge assumption that it works or ever comes out.

Yes. Because of the increased paracrine (cell-to-cell) signaling, as well as increased production of melanocytes and keratinocytes.

[Tomtom21]

Go to allergans website, find the presentations page and click to view the pdf of the Q2 conference call. Its on page 23 of the presentation. The thing with kythera is page 11

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Go to allergans website, find the presentations page and click to view the pdf of the Q2 conference call. Its on page 23 of the presentation. The thing with kythera is page 11

lol could've just sent me a link! Thanks dude!

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

BIM IS ALIVE.

Otherwise they would've never mentioned it in their presentation. That is a great indication that they are moving forward with it.

Anyone who's interested - click on the Q2 2015 Earnings Presentation Page 23 -

http://ir.allergan.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=65778&p=irol-presentations

[maver1ck]

BIM IS ALIVE.

Otherwise they would've never mentioned it in their presentation. That is a great indication that they are moving forward with it.

Anyone who's interested - click on the Q2 2015 Earnings Presentation Page 23 -

http://ir.allergan.com/phoenix.zhtml...-presentations

[burtandernie]

How do they determine if this is going to be OTC or by prescription only? Maybe wishing too much but it would be nice to see something on a shelf by rogain where I can make the decision verses some doctor who most likely doesnt keep up on or know much about hair loss. I dont blame them hair loss is a pretty minor thing compared to the stuff they routinely deal with.
Having to pay to see the doctor for something you know want before you even go and having to convince them is pretty annoying. If they say no you have to change primary care doctor, and go try again. Pretty silly process honestly since most docs are barely qualified to even make that call