follicept - what's this?

[Helix]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8006448

this is a very old study, but i don't understand some point

So it states igf-1 is better then insulin preventing hair going into catagen
without insulin follicle go in catagen faster
Then it states igf is useless in the presence 10mg of insulin
then it states growth hormone have no effect if it's not present insulin

in the end it say "we should remove insuline to get more catagen" assumign then to use only igf1?

Can this invitro thing work the same in our body? We need to clean our scalp from insuling in order to make it work? I don't think it's possible and i found it very confusing

Very old study about insulin shots and acne. It seems that local insulin shots improved acne.

The Effect of Intralesional Insulin and Glucagon in Acne Vulgaris
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v4...id196345a.html

Acne is associated with baldness and both are associated with insulin resistance. I think that you guys are on a good path. I hope that even if IGF-1 doesn't work you are going to experiment with other things.
Since insulin resistance is strongly associated with hair loss I think that efforts to improve peripheral carbohydrate metabolism in hair follicles will be beneficial for hair if not a cure. I also think that you are ideal team for that. You obviously have experience with diabetes and insulin, and you have a vehicle that will allow you to experiment with small doses and avoid long trials.

[Helix]

If everybody just calms down and take a look at the results of our forum tests, then we can all be friends In the end, everybody's in the same boat here.

I have a suggestion for you. What don't you make a FAQ or a tutorial on hair loss scams? Then moderator can make it sticky or something. This way you won't have to repeat the same thing in every post

[bigentries]

That argument was literally thrown in EVERY SINGLE TIME "wait till we are 100% sure". Look at "Nameless", he still claims, even in this thread, that Dr Nigam was not a scammer and just as much a victim as Wesley and Boldy. These scammers will never say "Ah you were right, we just wanted to take your money and run". Waiting for that to happen is useless. It will never happen.

Maybe calling Follicept scammers isn't really nice. But even worse are the people hyping this product already, like they KNOW it's going to work. That's MUCH more harmful here: Wesley got hospitalized and literally almost died because of people promoting scammer Dr Nigam.

If everybody just calms down and take a look at the results of our forum tests, then we can all be friends In the end, everybody's in the same boat here.

Yes.

To be absolutely clear: FOLLICEPT HASN'T GIVEN CLEAR SIGNS OF BEING A SCAM

They've entered some dodgy areas, but they shouldn't be ruled out completely

However, the thread has already entered "mark" mode. A lot of people have set the tone for people to be easily fooled when the time arrives.

This has happened in the past. Just in Yoram's example, after the weird hairdresser story, he presented himself, he had the credentials, and as always, people jumped the bandwagon.

What happened when we found out about acupuncture? The russian site? the leeches? Leorex? Fight started because the skeptics were "ruining it for everyone", all dissent was silenced. Those are questions we still don't have answers because his defenders decided he was 100% right and "time would tell"

The thing I found weird about Devon was that he crossed the line when he claimed he would be visiting swooping so he could "kiss his former bald spot". That doesn't seem professional and it's a common tactic to awake an emotional response from supporters when arguments fail.

Vraf was one of many that threatened to have people "kiss his former bald spot" or that he would "laugh while they continue to be bald losers".

[Arashi]

Yes, we will do a small but statistically significant trial under conditions that will allow us to publish data in respected peer-reviewed journals.
My job is not to convince Arashi, or any of you for that matter. My job is to test efficacy and then help get an effective, safe product to market. The proof is in the pudding, not in Arashi's opinion.

If you really don't care about convincing us, then why are you even here ? And peer reviewed journals ... That seems to be the new trick nowadays: publish in a peer reviewed magazine and people will believe it. Fact is that those 'peer reviewed magazines' dont check if the statements are true and you know that. They just check if the testing methodology makes any sense and if the article is relevant to them. HASCI managed to publish their lies that way too: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/HSTMagic8.html

So again, if you dont care about convincing any of us (like you say), then why are you even here ? Not meaning to take a piss at you, but a serious question. I'm really, honestly very interested in that answer. Thanks.

[stayhopeful]

If you really don't care about convincing us, then why are you even here ? And peer reviewed journals ... That seems to be the new trick nowadays: publish in a peer reviewed magazine and people will believe it. Fact is that those 'peer reviewed magazines' dont check if the statements are true and you know that. They just check if the testing methodology makes any sense and if the article is relevant to them. HASCI managed to publish their lies that way too: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/HSTMagic8.html

So again, if you dont care about convincing any of us (like you say), then why are you even here ? Not meaning to take a piss at you, but a serious question. I'm really, honestly very interested in that answer. Thanks.

Arashi, bro, I think you need to get some hobbies. Chill out with the posts bra, it'll be alright. Let's wait for some news next week

[serenemoon]

Arashi,

This is a serious question. I am genuinely curious. Can you give me some example of American scientists with actual credentials, affiliated with legitimate companies/universities who have come on BTT and scammed you guys touting their products?

Thanks!

[just2hairs]

Yes.

To be absolutely clear: FOLLICEPT HASN'T GIVEN CLEAR SIGNS OF BEING A SCAM......

......The thing I found weird about Devon was that he crossed the line when he claimed he would be visiting swooping so he could "kiss his former bald spot". That doesn't seem professional and it's a common tactic to awake an emotional response from supporters when arguments fail.

Vraf was one of many that threatened to have people "kiss his former bald spot" or that he would "laugh while they continue to be bald losers".

In one breath you acknowledged Follicept hasn't shown any signs of being a scam, and in another you compare them to the likes of Yoram and Vraf.

If they haven't shown any signs of scam then leave it at that. Don't go accusing them yet...that's what i mean by wait and see. Look, i'm not gonna waste time and flood this thread with this nonsense, i'm stopping here.

Btw, go get some sense of humor will ya?!

[Arashi]

Arashi,

This is a serious question. I am genuinely curious. Can you give me some example of American scientists with actual credentials, affiliated with legitimate companies/universities who have come on BTT and scammed you guys touting their products?

Thanks!

American, I dont know but what's the difference with European ? We had Dr Coen Gho talk with Spencer, he's member of several scientific societies and is/was associated with several academic hospitals and universities, just like Stephen Hsu. They even published this article in a peer reviewed scientific magazine where they presented a functional cure (!!) for hairloss, just like Devon wants to do: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/Novembe..._treatment.pdf

[serenemoon]

American, I dont know but what's the difference with European ? We had Dr Coen Gho, he's member of several scientific societies and is/was associated with academic hospitals, just like Stephen Hsu. They even published this article in a peer reviewed magazine, just like Devon wants to do: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/Novembe..._treatment.pdf

I need American. Cos that kind of shit from official MDs, MD/PhDs does not fly here. Especially not scams. Standards are RIGOROUS here. You would be booted so fast that you wouldn't know what hit you. Eitherways, I am curious. What made Dr. Gho a scam anyway?

[nameless]

Also, let's say it doesn't work. At least Follicept then showed that they weren't afraid to do some independent testing ! So they weren't scammers. Their product failed, but at least they tried and thus should be highly respected ! And I'll be the first to make my well meant apologies for having called them scammers !

On the other hand, if they don't want a test they can't control, then it makes them even more suspicious.

1. They haven't ruled out testing by someone at this site.

2. If they don't do it, it will probably be because they don't appreciate you blackmailing them. You don't know how to communicate with others.

3. You need to stop using the word "scammer" because you apply it far to often. You don't understand how rude, crude, and unreasonable you are.

4. You wouldn't have to make apologies if you didn't use the word "scam", without any justification, in the first place.

[nameless]

So you're saying you're a scammer?

That's exactly what he's saying. Arishi doesn't get it. He attacks people for things that they do not deserve to be attacked for. And I can assure you Devon that half these guys who are defending you here, or more, will be joining Arishi and telling him that he was right if your treatment does not work. Half these guys don't care if you gave an honest effort or not. Half of them will be ditto-ing Arishi just because your treatment doesn't work so I sure hope it does work or else half these guys are going to slander you.

[nameless]

+10000, minus the personal attack

I don't think it's a personal attack for him to state the obvious. Arishi is demanding that you send out an experimental chemical to people you have not clinically cleared in other parts of the country, and even in other countries, via the mails. It sounds very reckless and irresponsible. If something were to go wrong the fact that you sent this stuff out to other parts of the country for people you have not clinically cleared could make the news. It could ruin a company's image/reputation. I would not do it. But I'm smart.

[nameless]

Ok, would love to hear about any issue's he has. You promised to first make 100% sure it works. So if there are any safety issue's, then just wait till you have everything ready to market your product (all safety issue's should be resolved by then otherwise you may simply not sell it anyway), we'll select 20 people we all find trustworthy and run that 4 week test/trial then ! What better way than this to promote your product !

Devon's crazy if he sends an experimental chemical across the country, and even into other countries, to people he has not cleared medically, for the purpose of an experiment through the mails. Even if nobody gets hurt if main stream big pharmacy ever found out he was doing stuff like this they would lose all respect for Follicept. Sending experimental chemicals across the country to people who have not been cleared medically or had baseline biologicals worked up is very amateurish.

[nameless]

This thread has become completely boycotted by Arashi. Look dude, we all get what you're saying, thank you for your input, now stop drawing out meaningless conversation loops. OR if you must continue, open your own thread called "follicept BTT trial debate" and leave this thread with integrity. The greater community would very much appreciate if you did.

It hasn't been boycotted by Arishi; it's been infected by Arishi. It's what he does whenever an experimental effort starts. The only reason he has been getting away with it is that the odds greatly favor any treatment failing so he ACCIDENTALLY keeps hitting bulls-eyes. But it isn't because he's so smart; it's because it's just that hard to cure hair loss. I assure you that if a cure came along tomorrow he would call it a scam too.

[nameless]

`You leaving` would be the best reason.

How about because it's a bad idea to send experimental chemicals across the country, and even to other countries, so that people who have not been medically assessed and cleared can experiment with that experimental chemical even though the company has no ability to physically monitor that subject and properly assess data, including safety data? Is that good enough for you?

Now you promised to leave if someone came up with a good reason so don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out.