follicept - what's this?

[nameless]

Arashi has a pretty solid track record. I'd rather hear his input than comments about people almost crying because the "cure" is here while there is no real evidence yet.

It's luck that Arishi has a pretty solid track record. He insults all purveyors of new hair loss products and the odds are on his side because it's very hard to cure hair loss so even honest efforts to do so typically fail. The odds are on his side. He jumps the gun and starts false allegations before the evidence is in, and he makes false allegations against people who do not deserve to be denigrated.

[nameless]

We have seen several scammers, some caused people to lose hair (Tom with Nigam) or even almost literally killed people (Wesley with Nigam). So, scammers should be stopped as soon as possible. People also said it in Nigam's case: "Arashi you cant call Nigam a scammer yet, until we have 100% proof". Well I'll tell you what, 100% proof doesnt exist, there are still people who claim Nigam wasn't a scammer (read JarJarbinx'es (="nameless") reply here). But I do know I saved people, not only their money, not only their hair but maybe even literally their lives (google this board for Wesley and Nigam).

You want to shut me up ? Then show me proof that it works !! Not some proof that nobody can verify, but independent proof !

Nigam was not a scammer. You did the same thing to Nigam that you're doing to Follicept. And your unfair attacks against Nigam worked because he could not regrow lots of hair. If Nigam had been able to regrow lots of hair then back then you would have been discovered for the fool that you are. And if Follicept's treatment does not work then most of these guys will be joining you in called Follicept a scammer. And the only reason Nigam could not regrow lots of hair for people is because some of the pieces of the puzzle are missing. Nigam was trying experimental treatments based on the scientific info that is already out in public but that information isn't complete so he never had a chance.

[nameless]

What's that you say? Previous scammers almost killed people with untested products? Yet you want Follicept to send an untested treatment out to forum members? Sounds like great logic there my friend...

The issues you've had with previous scammers is exactly what Devon/Follicept is trying to avoid by doing a convenience and then local trial.

+ a big 20,0000

[nameless]

People said the same thing to him with others scams, I remember people saying the same thing to Arashi with Nigam and Pilox

People asked to "sit back and relax" and "we'll know the truth soon enough" to the Chlorine treatment. The same arguments get repeated here.
You remember what happened? Several people got scarred and the guy secretly sold the treatment to other forum members

Skeptics wouldn't be so vocal if the supporters wouldn't be so vocal too. People are already claiming to be "TeamFollicept" and admit they don't care if it works or not

This crap gets repeated again and again with no repercussions. People that pushed scams in the past should be banned for life and conveniently new members using the same distraction tactics should at least get some sort of penalty

Don't worry! The odds favor Follicept's treatment failing to regrow meaningful lost hair and if that is how this plays out then most of these guys will be badmouthing Devon/Follicept and exalting Arishi. LOL!

[nameless]

Well then instead all those posts "Arashi this" "Arashi that", focus on follicept and I'll focus on the forum test. Everybody happy.

Oh poo poo. Stop crying Arishi. The odds are in your favor that Follicept won't work because almost everything fails. And if it doesn't work then all these guys who are insulting you today will be hailing you then and they will be joining you in badmouthing Devon/Follicept.

[nameless]

Arashi,

This is a serious question. I am genuinely curious. Can you give me some example of American scientists with actual credentials, affiliated with legitimate companies/universities who have come on BTT and scammed you guys touting their products?

Thanks!

Your question is a loaded question because you intentionally excluded foreign scientists with some degree of credibility. It doesn't have to be American serenemoon. You should rephrase your question and include all developed nation scientists. I'm an American and I assure you we are not the beginning and the end of the world.

[Thinning@30]

I need American. Cos that kind of shit from official MDs, MD/PhDs does not fly here. Especially not scams. Standards are RIGOROUS here. You would be booted so fast that you wouldn't know what hit you.

I don't see why you would think that. Con artists with PhDs and MDs from good schools are a dime a dozen in this country. Just look at all the pseudoscientific crap promoted on TV by Dr. Oz. Check out Gregory Maguire of Bioregenerative Sciences. They're still trying to sell their hair loss snake oil. Check out Thomas Whitfield of Oxford University (yes, I know English, not American). Check out Provillus. Check out all those laser devices. Ever hear of the "see clearly method" that was supposed to improve vision naturally? Their ads used to play all the time on the radio. Total scam, but it was years before the authorities did anything about it.

Look, I want Follicept to be real just like you do. The reality is that it's pretty easy to perpetrate pseudoscientific scams even in relatively well-regulated countries. Those of us who've been around a while have seen lots of them come and go. Enforcement tends to be lax and largely complaint-driven. This is why it is so important to be skeptical of any treatment that is not undergoing formal clinical trials. Arashi has a very good track record of seeing through B.S. in the past. One of the strengths of this forum is having skeptical-minded people who can play devil's advocate and guard against our own self-delusions and wishful thinking.

Is Follicept a scam? I don't know. Devon seems sincere and nothing would make me happier than having a new treatment come out in a few months. On the other hand, they're making bold claims and they haven't even tested their product in humans yet. And it always gets me worried when forum newbies start defending a product. That said, I think engaging people like Devon is the best way to sort this out.

[Arashi]

I need American. Cos that kind of shit from official MDs, MD/PhDs does not fly here. Especially not scams. Standards are RIGOROUS here. You would be booted so fast that you wouldn't know what hit you. Eitherways, I am curious. What made Dr. Gho a scam anyway?

I doubt it's much different in the Netherlands than the USA. Thing is that Gho/HASCI got quite lucky. A consortium of doctors and companies sued HASCI/Gho because they also claimed, just like me, it was just BS he was selling. So what they did is they went to the central institute in the Netherlands that regulates all marketing and advertising, called 'de reclame code commissie'. They however ruled TWICE in favour of Gho ! Their reasoning was twice "If your paper gets accepted in a peer reviewed scientific magazine, then it must be true" ! So the first time HASCI won based on that argument of that Advertising regulator. Then, the suing consortium contacted that peer reviewed scientific journal, who then ADMITTED that they did NOT verify the claims HASCI made in the article, but they just checked if the methodology used made sense and if the article was relevant to their journal, that was all ! So, the consortium stepped again to the commision and threw that argument into the mix, yet the commission ruled again: "Once published in a peer reviewed scientific magazine. the content must be assumed to be true". And the second ruling of that commission is always definitive in the Netherlands and the commission will not rule again, so HASCI can just keep selling their scam, which they're still doing. And that it's nonsense, I've proven on my site, this is for example 100% proof it's all a lie: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/partial.html it's just a regular FUE

(BTW, I havent updated my site but recently a Dutch celeb who went 3 times to HASCI went after that to another clinic, who determined his donor was completely depleted by HASCI and that the only thing left they could do was a body hair transplant. I think I should take the time this weekend to update my site with that, it's good stuff)

Anyway, typing this all out, maybe those regulators aren't as dumb in the USA as in the Netherlands ...

[nameless]

I doubt it's much different in the Netherlands than the USA. Thing is that Gho/HASCI got quite lucky. A consortium of doctors and companies sued HASCI/Gho because they also claimed, just like me, it was just BS he was selling. So what they did is they went to the central institute in the Netherlands that regulates all marketing and advertising, called 'de reclame code commissie'. They however ruled TWICE in favour of Gho ! Their reasoning was twice "If your paper gets accepted in a peer reviewed scientific magazine, then it must be true" ! So the first time HASCI won based on that argument of that Advertising regulator. Then, the suing consortium contacted that peer reviewed scientific journal, who then ADMITTED that they did NOT verify the claims HASCI made in the article, but they just checked if the methodology used made sense and if the article was relevant to their journal, that was all ! So, the consortium stepped again to the commision and threw that argument into the mix, yet the commission ruled again: "Once published in a peer reviewed scientific magazine. the content must be assumed to be true". And the second ruling of that commission is always definitive in the Netherlands and the commission will not rule again, so HASCI can just keep selling their scam, which they're still doing. And that it's nonsense, I've proven on my site, this is for example 100% proof it's all a lie: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/partial.html it's just a regular FUE

(BTW, I havent updated my site but recently a Dutch celeb who went 3 times to HASCI went after that to another clinic, who determined his donor was completely depleted by HASCI and that the only thing left they could do was a body hair transplant. I think I should take the time this weekend to update my site with that, it's good stuff)

Anyway, typing this all out, maybe those regulators aren't as dumb in the USA as in the Netherlands ...

The biggest problem with this is that I have no respect for your opinion.

[serenemoon]

I don't see why you would think that. Con artists with PhDs and MDs from good schools are a dime a dozen in this country. Just look at all the pseudoscientific crap promoted on TV by Dr. Oz. Check out Gregory Maguire of Bioregenerative Sciences. They're still trying to sell their hair loss snake oil. Check out Thomas Whitfield of Oxford University (yes, I know English, not American). Check out Provillus. Check out all those laser devices. Ever hear of the "see clearly method" that was supposed to improve vision naturally? Their ads used to play all the time on the radio. Total scam, but it was years before the authorities did anything about it.

Look, I want Follicept to be real just like you do. The reality is that it's pretty easy to perpetrate pseudoscientific scams even in relatively well-regulated countries. Those of us who've been around a while have seen lots of them come and go. Enforcement tends to be lax and largely complaint-driven. This is why it is so important to be skeptical of any treatment that is not undergoing formal clinical trials. Arashi has a very good track record of seeing through B.S. in the past. One of the strengths of this forum is having skeptical-minded people who can play devil's advocate and guard against our own self-delusions and wishful thinking.

Is Follicept a scam? I don't know. Devon seems sincere and nothing would make me happier than having a new treatment come out in a few months. On the other hand, they're making bold claims and they haven't even tested their product in humans yet. And it always gets me worried when forum newbies start defending a product. That said, I think engaging people like Devon is the best way to sort this out.

.

Fair enough. Honestly though, BTT had two people pop up from far off Asia and scam them. Whose credentials/science they can't even really verify. I remember Nigam from skimming through forums a while ago, and I immediately dismissed him because I could see through the bullshit. What they did was completely different from how Prometheon is. Heck Devon is going to do video updates himself every week! In fact, I think it is a testament to some of the lurker's/rare posters' discerning ability that we decided to join/be more active after Follicept came on. We didn't jump on every bandwagon we saw, but we see genuine potential here. Trust me, and I know Arashi is going to say otherwise and I can't stop that, the new accounts are a good sign in this case.

Also I don't agree with the saying that "forum newbies" are defending the product. Honestly, I don't think any of us are sure that this will work. We hope it will because the science sounds legit, but none of us know and none of us have said that it is the cure or that it definitely will be the next big thing. However, I think what a lot of people are defending Prometheon against is the fact that they are being called "scammers." Anyone here can admit, so far none of us can have reason to call Follicept a scam. So far, they have been open, honest and their stories match up. Hell they are even considering sending you guys some samples to try out. They have earned a level of respect in the scientific community. There is a difference between "believing that Follicept is the holy grail" and "believing in Prometheon's integrity." I will tell you now, calling Prometheon "scammers" is a mistake. Mark my words. But of course, there is no point repeating this again and again. Like I said, the results and the success of the product (IF IT WORKS!!!) will speak for themselves. Also, if the results are bad and the company chooses not to release the product, well that also shows the integrity and honesty of Prometheon Pharma, no?

[serenemoon]

I doubt it's much different in the Netherlands than the USA. Thing is that Gho/HASCI got quite lucky. A consortium of doctors and companies sued HASCI/Gho because they also claimed, just like me, it was just BS he was selling. So what they did is they went to the central institute in the Netherlands that regulates all marketing and advertising, called 'de reclame code commissie'. They however ruled TWICE in favour of Gho ! Their reasoning was twice "If your paper gets accepted in a peer reviewed scientific magazine, then it must be true" ! So the first time HASCI won based on that argument of that Advertising regulator. Then, the suing consortium contacted that peer reviewed scientific journal, who then ADMITTED that they did NOT verify the claims HASCI made in the article, but they just checked if the methodology used made sense and if the article was relevant to their journal, that was all ! So, the consortium stepped again to the commision and threw that argument into the mix, yet the commission ruled again: "Once published in a peer reviewed scientific magazine. the content must be assumed to be true". And the second ruling of that commission is always definitive in the Netherlands and the commission will not rule again, so HASCI can just keep selling their scam, which they're still doing. And that it's nonsense, I've proven on my site, this is for example 100% proof it's all a lie: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/partial.html it's just a regular FUE

(BTW, I havent updated my site but recently a Dutch celeb who went 3 times to HASCI went after that to another clinic, who determined his donor was completely depleted by HASCI and that the only thing left they could do was a body hair transplant. I think I should take the time this weekend to update my site with that, it's good stuff)

Anyway, typing this all out, maybe those regulators aren't as dumb in the USA as in the Netherlands ...

Thanks Arashi. That is really sad that these people are continuing to act like this. Sigh. I hope they get to put a stop to it soon.

[BoSox]

Good luck follicept!!!!!!

[nameless]

If you really don't care about convincing us, then why are you even here ? And peer reviewed journals ... That seems to be the new trick nowadays: publish in a peer reviewed magazine and people will believe it. Fact is that those 'peer reviewed magazines' dont check if the statements are true and you know that. They just check if the testing methodology makes any sense and if the article is relevant to them. HASCI managed to publish their lies that way too: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/HSTMagic8.html

So again, if you dont care about convincing any of us (like you say), then why are you even here ? Not meaning to take a piss at you, but a serious question. I'm really, honestly very interested in that answer. Thanks.

So Arishi, are you saying that Follicept is not allowed to come here? Why do they have to explain why they come here? I have never explained why I come here. You have never been forced to explain why you come here. I don't think anybody HAS TO explain why they come here.

And you keep accusing them of scamming. Now you're accusing them of scamming by opting to put their results in a peer-reviewed magazine. So are you saying that all the studies in peer reviewed magazines are fraudulent? Are you saying that if hair loss researchers put their results into a peer-reviewed magazine that is the clincher that proves that the treatment is a scam?

Do you have any idea just how nonsensical your posts are? It's amazing to me that anybody respects you.

[nameless]

I doubt it's much different in the Netherlands than the USA. Thing is that Gho/HASCI got quite lucky. A consortium of doctors and companies sued HASCI/Gho because they also claimed, just like me, it was just BS he was selling. So what they did is they went to the central institute in the Netherlands that regulates all marketing and advertising, called 'de reclame code commissie'. They however ruled TWICE in favour of Gho ! Their reasoning was twice "If your paper gets accepted in a peer reviewed scientific magazine, then it must be true" ! So the first time HASCI won based on that argument of that Advertising regulator. Then, the suing consortium contacted that peer reviewed scientific journal, who then ADMITTED that they did NOT verify the claims HASCI made in the article, but they just checked if the methodology used made sense and if the article was relevant to their journal, that was all ! So, the consortium stepped again to the commision and threw that argument into the mix, yet the commission ruled again: "Once published in a peer reviewed scientific magazine. the content must be assumed to be true". And the second ruling of that commission is always definitive in the Netherlands and the commission will not rule again, so HASCI can just keep selling their scam, which they're still doing. And that it's nonsense, I've proven on my site, this is for example 100% proof it's all a lie: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/partial.html it's just a regular FUE

(BTW, I havent updated my site but recently a Dutch celeb who went 3 times to HASCI went after that to another clinic, who determined his donor was completely depleted by HASCI and that the only thing left they could do was a body hair transplant. I think I should take the time this weekend to update my site with that, it's good stuff)

Anyway, typing this all out, maybe those regulators aren't as dumb in the USA as in the Netherlands ...

So let me make sure I have this straight - are you saying that if researchers put their study results into peer-reviewed journals that's the clincher that proves that the researchers are scammers?

LOL!

It's amazing that there is even one person at this site that respects the things that you say.

LMAO!!!

[Clion1995]

You can't even talk about Dr. Oz in this forum. Scientific integrity does not allow it. And only a sensible person would buy this product only if it works. And even if they tampered with the data (slim chances), and you used the product and everyone found it was fake, the company would be bashed by the scientific community and their funding would go to shit. It really is common sense.