follicept - what's this?

[Arashi]

I hear you on the fact that those cosmetic claims can't be verified. Trust me, I get it. But do you see how it may be a bit unfair to say that they don't "want" the FDA to oversee their trials? It is almost like saying that they are specifically pushing the FDA away from checking Follicept trials. It is more like, the FDA just doesn't care to.

I guess you have a point, maybe it's not fair to say they don't WANT it. But it most definitely doesn't speak in their favour or makes their product credible.

Look it's really simple: do that 10 person forum trial and even the biggest doubters here will shut up and empty their pockets for their product ! win-win for everybody !

[NeedHairASAP]

I hear you on the fact that those cosmetic claims can't be verified. Trust me, I get it. But do you see how it may be a bit unfair to say that they don't "want" the FDA to oversee their trials? It is almost like saying that they are specifically pushing the FDA away from checking Follicept trials. It is more like, the FDA just doesn't care to.

The funny thing is the high bar set by the FDA has killed so many potential upgrades to fin and minox that it's dizzying. Lots of conversation about other chemicals have happened.... and not gone past conversations... because somebody inevitably reminds the discussion participants that they don't have $500M to get past the FDA trials. Boom Done. And so, here we are in 2015.

All of that said, let's be thankful that follicept can get by the FDA and test this stuff. Of course that means that we have to be extra skeptical and keen-- but we all know that. I'm fairly certain everyone understands that follicept has not demonstrated anything yet--- even follicept confirmed this. What I am getting at is:

1. Lets be thankful this doesn't need the fda was formed in 1906 when scammers could only be caught as fast as a horse could get to the next town to warn the citizens of the traveling snake oil salesman. While still relevant, the FDA isn't the greatest thing in the entire world and is pretty outdated in its processes.

2. We are all on the same page as far as the need for follicept to provide evidence of effectiveness. There isn't really a need to say "the need to show proof" over and over and over and over. And there is definitely no need to call them scammers at this point

[hellouser]

Look it's really simple: do that 10 person forum trial and even the biggest doubters here will shut up and empty their pockets for their product ! win-win for everybody !

Give the stuff to me since I'm the only one competent when it comes to documenting progress.

[NeedHairASAP]

Agreed there, this guy doesnt look like him. I stand corrected there !

Anyway awaiting an answer from Devon about the idea to do a small trial among forum users !

small trials among forum users NEVER WORK. Never. People take bad photos. Or just disappear. Plus, we'll find out pretty quick if it is a scam after the indiegogo.

[tf2legend]

They sell a cosmetic product, they can claim basically anything and then post with small letters "These statements weren't verified by the FDA". It's what happens with those hundreds of scam cosmetic products out there which supposedly grow hair, clear wrinkles, make you look 10 years younger etc.

So, if the FDA doesnt supervise, how they we know they won't cheat ? The only way would be such a small trial. I can't think of a valid reason why they wouldnt do that. It's in EVERYBODY's interest here: in our interest, to find out the truth and in their interest, to convince the world. It's a win-win (if follicept aren't scammers)

They can do their own independent testing. If they see that its effective, they can provide a small batch to the community here and we can vouch for it.

[nameless]

They sell a cosmetic product, they can claim basically anything and then post with small letters "These statements weren't verified by the FDA". It's what happens with those hundreds of scam cosmetic products out there which supposedly grow hair, clear wrinkles, make you look 10 years younger etc.

So, if the FDA doesnt supervise, how they we know they won't cheat ? The only way would be such a small trial. I can't think of a valid reason why they wouldnt do that. It's in EVERYBODY's interest here: in our interest, to find out the truth and in their interest, to convince the world. It's a win-win (if follicept aren't scammers)

Arishi they submitted their application to the FDA and the FDA said Follicept does not have to do clinical trials. It's like your faulting Follicept because the FDA said Follicept does not have to do clinical trials. What do you want Follicept to do - send a letter to the FDA demanding that the FDA order Follicept to do standard FDA clinical trials?

They did say they are going to do a small trial *if" their convenience trial shows positive results. They have already agreed to what you are demanding.

[nameless]

I guess you have a point, maybe it's not fair to say they don't WANT it. But it most definitely doesn't speak in their favour or makes their product credible.

Look it's really simple: do that 10 person forum trial and even the biggest doubters here will shut up and empty their pockets for their product ! win-win for everybody !

But you're wrong Arishi...it does speak somewhat in their favor because they did submit an application to the FDA fully expecting that the FDA would order FDA trials. So that does speak somewhat to the issue of Follicept's intent. They initially intended to do some initial trial (at least) to establish some efficacy (if the treatment works) and then probably sell it to big pharma if it did work in 1 early test. So if you look at the fact that they applied to FDA to do clinical trials that does speak in their favor.

[nameless]

small trials among forum users NEVER WORK. Never. People take bad photos. Or just disappear. Plus, we'll find out pretty quick if it is a scam after the indiegogo.

I think we should all agree to stop using the word scam. Follicept is not a scam even if it doesn't grow hair. Follicept is not trying to trick anybody.

[serenemoon]

All of that said, let's be thankful that follicept can get by the FDA and test this stuff. Of course that means that we have to be extra skeptical and keen-- but we all know that. I'm fairly certain everyone understands that follicept has not demonstrated anything yet--- even follicept confirmed this. What I am getting at is:

1. Lets be thankful this doesn't need the fda was formed in 1906 when scammers could only be caught as fast as a horse could get to the next town to warn the citizens of the traveling snake oil salesman. While still relevant, the FDA isn't the greatest thing in the entire world and is pretty outdated in its processes.

Seriously, I am so thankful that I don't have to wait 5 to 10 years for a potentially effective product. My hair would be GONE by then, and so will be most of my youth. Of course we don't know it will work, but it is nice that we will have an answer soon.

[Arashi]

small trials among forum users NEVER WORK. Never. People take bad photos. Or just disappear. Plus, we'll find out pretty quick if it is a scam after the indiegogo.

Hellouser is a pro photographer, a trusted forum member and he's been around and will be around for a while (unless this really works of course, then there's no more need for hair loss fora LOL) And I'm sure there are more like him, I can think of gc83uk for example who's not only proven sincere but also a good photographer.

This is THE way to prove it works. I don't care about any testing they do themselves, way too easy to manipulate. But a test here, that's a situation they can't control and thus can't cheat.

Devon said it themselves, they're a small company and really appreciate the help of forum users. Then why not seize this tremendous opportunity for them, to convince even the most doubtful members ?

[serenemoon]

I do also think, though, that is it is IMPERATIVE that we learn to distinguish the difference between a treatment and a cure. A treatment is something that you have to CONTINUE for well, pretty much forever in order to improve or maintain the situation. Examples of this would be- Minoxidil, Finasteride and if it works, Follicept. A cure is something that will completely get rid of the issue and you won't have to continue taking the medication/drug/whatever for a long period of time. AGA, based on what is available in the market for the general public at this moment in time, is incurable but simply treatable. The company has NEVER claimed to be able to "cure" hairloss, but rather come up with an effective regrowth treatment that will need to be continued for the forseeable future. Now how good of a regrowth treatment will it be is what we will see in the future.

[Justinian]

Hellouser is a pro photographer, a trusted forum member and he's been around and will be around for a while (unless this really works of course, then there's no more need for hair loss fora LOL) And I'm sure there are more like him, I can think of gc83uk for example who's not only proven sincere but also a good photographer.

This is THE way to prove it works. I don't care about any testing they do themselves, way too easy to manipulate. But a test here, that's a situation they can't control and thus can't cheat.

Devon said it themselves, they're a small company and really appreciate the help of forum users. Then why not seize this tremendous opportunity for them, to convince even the most doubtful members ?

You can't run a legitimate trial with users on other hair loss meds or users just coming off them. That eliminates the majority of this board.

[champpy]

Devon,
Question for you, but Ill understand if you do not have the answer yet.

If the product proves effective on humans, do you have any idea if it will loose its effect over time like minoxidil does? Ive heard that minox can help with hair growth up to a certain point, like maybe a few years. Didn't know if IGF-1's potency would taper off in time in the same way.

Thanks man! Safe travels this weekend

[Illusion]

I actually took the time to read through the whole topic, it's quite entertaining indeed Just a quick summary:

* Although this company supposedly can not only cure hairloss, but has a superior vehicle that could be applied to tons of meds and thus must be literally worth billions, they couldnt convince any investors to put money into it, even in a climate of negative interest and all time highs in the stock market (the best possible environment to attract investors)
* Dr Hsu, the driving force behind this, put this product out there for sale: http://www.amazon.com/Camellix-ReviT.../dp/B00ESZBNJA Haven't tested it but looks like a typical scam product to me
* Several people insist dr Hsu graduated at Harvard but his LinkedIn only says he was a physician at a hospital associated with Harvard: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/stephen-hsu/37/9b5/776
* They don't want the FDA to oversee their trial.
* Tons of new accounts, that appeared since only a few months, keep pumping the product and keep throwing personal attacks at anyone who even dares to challenge it.

It all really looks like a huge scam to me. But I know, we've been down that road, people like me call it a scam, other people will throw in insults at those people and we'll be along 100 pages more of fighting in this thread without any progress. So I thought, how can we make this thread useful and actually get somewhere. And then I read this comment from Swooping: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post201869

I think this really is a wonderful way. Look, if Follicept is honest and really believes in their product and REALLY only wants to sell it when it works, then they must be interested in convincing as much people as possible. Of course they can run their own trials, that no one oversees, but how can we know they didnt cheat ? We simply can't, no one oversees their trial, they could post anything they like.

So, the BEST and ONLY way (besides FDA overseen trials) to convince even the biggest doubters (like me and Swooping) is Swooping's idea. We select 10 TBT users, who have been visiting this forum for years, who are neutral and who we can trust. No, not me, not Swooping nor those 'new' accounts here, just other long term users we all agree we can trust. Devon sends out his product to them and they agree to put it onto their scalp for one month and document their progress.

This really is a common goal: if follicept really wants to prove that the doubters are wrong, then this simply is THE best way to do that ! If follicept comes up with some BS reason why they won't do it, we all know it's because they can't control the situation and thus can't cheat and ergo, we can all agree it's a scam.

What do you say Devon ?

Don't know if anyone has responded to this yet but this obv never works. Even when this is being done by very trustworthy and objective forum members who also happen to make great photos for comparison, it still won't work because almost everyone on this forum uses at least something. It would be hard to determine whether results would be thanks to follicept or thanks to other treatments.

In order to do this, we would need members who haven't used anything for a long time (6 - 12 months is about right I think). Nobody is going to stop their current regime for a long time to try out some cosmetic hair growth product. Besides, this would take a long time anyway before they could even begin with this mini trial.

I get the idea of doing a mini trial to see whether it's legit or not but due to circumstances I think it's close to impossible to do such a trial in a way where we can safely conclude the results are purely due to follicept

[stayhopeful]

I believe I am a trustworthy member, I have never taken any hairloss medication or treatments, and I would be willing to trial Follicept. Really am counting on Follicept to save me here, can't tell you how badly I need some hairline relief.