follicept - what's this?

[baldie42]

It's pointless to answer you but i will for one last time, i'm active in other 4 forums with different nicknames, i subscribed here just for follicept indeed so he could answer my questions but i'm active in every interesting thread in this section from bim to seti and cb and if you notice every post i made are in the central europe hours and asked Devon multiple time about europe release but you are too to read the thread. Or maybe do you want a picture of my collapsed top head, here we go http://i.imgur.com/Fqtv9KC.jpg?1 do i qualify as legit balding user? I'm near nw3 or totally in nw3 area according to this pic, and i don't even know if propecia can restore enought density to cover my scalp anymore so yes follicpet is one of my first interest right now because i don't want to use rogaine anyway, only propecia if it fail

This is enough for you or do you want my passport and ip location track? my god

I'm a newbie on this forum,but I've been an active member on hair site. com for years.
I've registered on here because of Follicept.no other forums are on about this in a big way at all.
The fact that Devon/follicept are posting on here makes this site.

I've researched and I think the science is there,but we'll all have to wait and see - fingers crossed

If it doesn't happen,I've got used to shaving what hair I've left off,but it would be nice to have a full head of hair - I can dream

Good luck follicept

[Keki]

[QUOTE=Hairismylife;203914]

By the way Keki is definitely a troll shill account. You can't be possibly that hyped for a product and constantly attack people who are skeptical. We have all rights to be skeptical until huge valid independent results are provided. I think me and I think Arashi want to keep you guys sharp. An informed, educated community is stronger than you ever could imagine. A easy to manipulated, easy to be hyped community is extremely bad for innovation and real progress. If people in the past wouldn't that susceptible to their emotions you would probably be sitting with way better treatments now. Wait for hard goddamn evidence. Don't even believe Devon on his word. If we would believe on people their word as I said we would transform everyone from NW6 to NW1, Dr. Gho could already do that LOL.

Have a nice day.

You are ignoring the fact that i'm here waiting for proof, i will not blindly buy anything, until the will post fake pics they cannot be called scammers by any means. The difference here is that i read my good papers, read who they are and i'm intellectually honest enough to not teach them their jobs or call them scammer because they choose to to an interactive trial with a balding community after their in vivo animal trial, the amount of shit they are forced to read even before they actually sell anything it's unbelivable
You think it will never ever works, and it's totally legit, but it totally wrong call them snake oil seller because they are tring to prove their theory posting live update in this forum, we can crearly see if their pics are shopped or not, and if they cheat they are done as company, the amount of flame and negative comments will be devastating for them and will never sell a single product, maybe maybe they will reach the summer follicept batch but after 2-3 months if no one see results they are done

[cr1mson]

Some of you guys are so silly. FDA regulation has nothing to do with efficacy or legitimacy. The FDA has a mandate to make sure that consumers are safe. This is why they require extensive trials for new, experimental drugs and why it takes 10-20 years to get to market with them. This is also why they don't regulate simple herbal remedies, homeopathic treatments, and the like. There are a million snake oil treatments out there, as you point out, and they can keep on selling to their heart's content. It's safe, it just doesn't work. So the FDA doesn't care. Given our ingredients and levels, we should fall in the same boat.

Now scamming is a different issue. That's the FTC- Federal Trade Commission. They are responsible for punishing scammers, cracking down on false advertising, etc. if consumers are "harmed" (not in the medical sense, but scammed sense). They actually have more legal authority than the FDA. The FDA must get the Department of Justice to intervene from a legal standpoint if and when required.

Back to scientific integrity. Again, we are convinced of safety given published studies (our ingredients are FDA approved for other indications and/or used in cosmetics many of you use every single day) and concentrations. We have a theory on efficacy, that's what we really have to show here.

In pursuit of that, we will be doing a convenience sample asap on a handful of people, not much different than a backwoods experiment- "Hey Jimbo, 'mere. Try this crap out! I done made a concoction". We will show you those results as a courtesy. Those results will be as rigorously and consistently reported as they can be, but understand skepticism still at that point.

The results of that less rigorous (only because they are not randomized, blinded, or placebo controlled), convenience sample will tell us if it seems to be working or not, in very generous terms, and if it's worth spending a ton of time and effort and money to go forward with a larger trial.

This larger trial will be randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled, IRB approved, and statistically significant, and will yield data that we can publish in peer-reviewed journals. In other words, good science. We may or may not launch Indiegogo before or during this trial, just depending on what we are seeing. If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times: scientific integrity is paramount, and we will not take your money until convinced it will be effects. Trust me, our standard of evidence is higher than yours.

Here, someone start a Google doc. Anyone who thinks this is a snake oil or scam, put your name and address down. We will black list you to remove any risk of you ever getting this product so you never get burned. If we turn out to be a scam, we'll send you a hand-signed post card from our CEO so you can hang it on your wall of righteousness forever. I almost said if it turns out not to work, but I have acknowledged many times that that is possible, and if it doesn't, we won't have money for postage since we won't have taken any money, like I just repeated again.

Any questions?

Have watched every page of this thread, first time posting in it. First off, whether this treatment works or not, just wanted thank you Devon for your transparency and for putting up with some of the idiots on this thread. As a new business launching, you must have your hands full and we appreciate you taking time out of your day to update us. Whether Follicept succeeds or not, we as a forum are grateful for your continued professionalism and trying to help the cause.

With that said, I was wondering if perhaps when you see results, and launch the Indiegogo, if you could perhaps make it available to Canadians? I know your neighbours from the north would be eternally grateful!

Cheers!

[Swooping]

@Hairismylife they added the links I provided, look on their site. Obviously to reinforce the image of how "effective" igf-1 is.

Some links on the safety and effectiveness of IGF-1: http://www.jhgc.com.sg/theory/igf-1/index.html http://www.jhgc.com.sg/theory/index.html

Kenji Okajima made the study that led to that hypothesis and those products. Try them out I'm sure you'll grow a magnificent set of hair .

If you go to the website of follicept how would that be perceived by an emotional hairloss sufferer? Pretty damn effective right? Man I would almost begin to think it's better than minoxidil! Why the hell would anyone do that BEFORE even having ANY evidence that it works? Please enlighten me. I find this an important question.

Why would anyone come to this board without having any evidence? To create trust from noobs probably, what a smart move.

You do understand that even histogen, replicel, aderans, bimatoprost currently can't match to the mean growth rates of minoxidil? In fact no single compound in the history of human kind can grow hair as good as potassium channel openers. Everything till now is pretty damn far off even. Think about that, just think about that.

Do you know that minoxidil literally sets in incredibly much pathways which can positively attribute to hair follicle cycling? I could write 3 pages full of the molecular signalling implicated to minoxidil & hair follicle biology. Jup also IGF-1 is apparently upregulated by minoxidil;

minoxidil (1) induces cell growth factors such as VEGF, HGF, IGF-1 and potentiates HGF and IGF-1 actions by the activation of uncoupled SUR on the plasma membrane of dermal papilla cells

Do you sincerely believe that considering that IGF-1 has been around for such a long time that the world is so damn lazy to not have tried this out already? Come on man. What do you think all the real top hair loss biologists do? What do you think that pharmaceutical companies wouldn't have picked up IGF-1? Do you sincerely believe that hair transplant doctors didn't play with multiple growth factors?


And no, sorry the delivery vehicle isn't superior to injections. Injections are highly efficient even with compound like botox which is 150kDa (20 times bigger than IGF-1), delivered IM or SUB-Q. With injections you literally push the substance in direct cell contact to the place where you need to be, just as in vitro almost. After passing the strateum corneum diffused distribution is possible too. After that the pharmacokinetics of the compound itself can do the job.

Oh and btw People with Laron Syndrome ironically have pretty luxurious hair from what I saw. Their condition is marked by having almost no IGF-1 concentrations in their body. They can have Androgenetic Alopecia though. What we can draw from this evidence is that most likely IGF-1 isn't as important for hair follicle cycling. There might be some paracrine action going on from the dermal papilla to specific cell lines in the hair follicle itself even in their condition. After all most of the IGF-1 is secreted by the liver and the hair follicle is a mini-organ too. But for the DP itself? Most likely not. Knockdown of SHH for example causes full Alopecia.

In the past Hairismylife, people were skeptical too.. For instance about the Theradome, Keratene Retard, TRX2, Procyanidin-b2, Folligen, Equol and the list goes on with hundreds of products...

I can imagine new people would be hyped by this and easily convinced I really do. But dude most of these products had smart people behind them too.. Looked legit as hell at first, good credentials etc. Yet we see how good those products work, awesome.

Then again, jup as I explained Devon can run his trial now and come with the so called "good results". Do you know how often this has happened dude in the hairloss industry and for instance in the supplement industry? Man I could give you a list of 100 things. It's marketing pur sang for commercial driven goals. The uneducated, uninformed people on this forum are such an easy target.

@Keki, I can show you trichoscans from multiple treatments too, they look so damn awesome. For instance LLLT, Procyanidin-b2, SGF-57, Pumpkin seed oil, folligen ETC

Here we are still the only real treatments are finasteride & minoxidil. Isn't that strange? What makes those study results of those other products different then when these results of follicept will be released?

[Maintain]

^ Same here! I've been lurking for a few months, and this thread made me get an account, just to reply and thank Devon and Follicept for their constant updates. Ive read the entire thread and only now got an account, i wonder how many lurkers like me there are =p Im very excited about this, as a recently balding person i feel that i still have a chance before it gets worse.

And I was wondering the exact same thing, if results actually happen, would Canada perhaps have a chance to get Follicept sooner than the rest of the world, after/at the same time as the US?

Thanks and good luck.

[serenemoon]

Hi Devon, I have a question. I am not sure if you covered this, but is there any specific reason that pulse therapy is considered over a continuous dose? Do you believe there will be enhanced efficacy that way? I understand that this is probably far too early to ask this, but just checking as to where you guys stand as of now.

Also, just want to say, thank you for being so honest and open about this whole thing. You have stood valiantly, and with class and dignity despite all the ridiculous accusations. Best of luck with the trials!

[follicept]

[QUOTE=Hairismylife;203907]

Haha. Arashi go read further in the topic I kinda trolled and took the turn into the positive direction. You know what they did? They updated ***************** with all the information I provided. Little did anyone know this;


Is that true?

No. The information has been there since day one, and our science team is looking into those claims and the issue of Okajima's controversial papers/reputation. Will remove them if required, and we have other more recent papers to cite.

[follicept]

Have watched every page of this thread, first time posting in it. First off, whether this treatment works or not, just wanted thank you Devon for your transparency and for putting up with some of the idiots on this thread. As a new business launching, you must have your hands full and we appreciate you taking time out of your day to update us. Whether Follicept succeeds or not, we as a forum are grateful for your continued professionalism and trying to help the cause.

With that said, I was wondering if perhaps when you see results, and launch the Indiegogo, if you could perhaps make it available to Canadians? I know your neighbours from the north would be eternally grateful!

Cheers!

Thank you! Happy to share. Because of NAFTA, and some rulings we have seen in Canada re: IGF-1, I am pretty sure we will have no problem getting it to America, Jr. Don't want to fully promise yet and let you down but pretty confident.

[Hairismylife]

@Hairismylife they added the links I provided, look on their site. Obviously to reinforce the image of how "effective" igf-1 is.



Kenji Okajima made the study that led to that hypothesis and those products. Try them out I'm sure you'll grow a magnificent set of hair .

If you go to the website of follicept how would that be perceived by an emotional hairloss sufferer? Pretty damn effective right? Man I would almost begin to think it's better than minoxidil! Why the hell would anyone do that BEFORE even having ANY evidence that it works? Please enlighten me. I find this an important question.

Why would anyone come to this board without having any evidence? To create trust from noobs probably, what a smart move.

You do understand that even histogen, replicel, aderans, bimatoprost currently can't match to the mean growth rates of minoxidil? In fact no single compound in the history of human kind can grow hair as good as potassium channel openers. Everything till now is pretty damn far off even. Think about that, just think about that.

Do you know that minoxidil literally sets in incredibly much pathways which can positively attribute to hair follicle cycling? I could write 3 pages full of the molecular signalling implicated to minoxidil & hair follicle biology. Jup also IGF-1 is apparently upregulated by minoxidil;



Do you sincerely believe that considering that IGF-1 has been around for such a long time that the world is so damn lazy to not have tried this out already? Come on man. What do you think all the real top hair loss biologists do? What do you think that pharmaceutical companies wouldn't have picked up IGF-1? Do you sincerely believe that hair transplant doctors didn't play with multiple growth factors?


And no, sorry the delivery vehicle isn't superior to injections. Injections are highly efficient even with compound like botox which is 150kDa (20 times bigger than IGF-1), delivered IM or SUB-Q. With injections you literally push the substance in direct cell contact to the place where you need to be, just as in vitro almost. After passing the strateum corneum diffused distribution is possible too. After that the pharmacokinetics of the compound itself can do the job.

Oh and btw People with Laron Syndrome ironically have pretty luxurious hair from what I saw. Their condition is marked by having almost no IGF-1 concentrations in their body. They can have Androgenetic Alopecia though. What we can draw from this evidence is that most likely IGF-1 isn't as important for hair follicle cycling. There might be some paracrine action going on from the dermal papilla to specific cell lines in the hair follicle itself even in their condition. After all most of the IGF-1 is secreted by the liver and the hair follicle is a mini-organ too. But for the DP itself? Most likely not. Knockdown of SHH for example causes full Alopecia.

In the past Hairismylife, people were skeptical too.. For instance about the Theradome, Keratene Retard, TRX2, Procyanidin-b2, Folligen, Equol and the list goes on with hundreds of products...

I can imagine new people would be hyped by this and easily convinced I really do. But dude most of these products had smart people behind them too.. Looked legit as hell at first, good credentials etc. Yet we see how good those products work, awesome.

Then again, jup as I explained Devon can run his trial now and come with the so called "good results". Do you know how often this has happened dude in the hairloss industry and for instance in the supplement industry? Man I could give you a list of 100 things. It's marketing pur sang for commercial driven goals. The uneducated, uninformed people on this forum are such an easy target.

@Keki, I can show you trichoscans from multiple treatments too, they look so damn awesome. For instance LLLT, Procyanidin-b2, SGF-57, Pumpkin seed oil, folligen ETC

Here we are still the only real treatments are finasteride & minoxidil. Isn't that strange? What makes those study results of those other products different then when these results of follicept will be released?

Swooping I see your point that IGF-1 exists for long but yet no professionals have had luck with it.
I agree that it's strange.
Now the only critical factor is the delivery channels. It's this aspect we differ in view.
We have NO master degree in biochemistry and so you can't come to a conclusion that injection has the same effectiveness as Follicept delivery based om your self study. Yet we have no clues about it.
As baldies, we should just keep our fingers crossed.

[follicept]

@Hairismylife they added the links I provided, look on their site. Obviously to reinforce the image of how "effective" igf-1 is.



Kenji Okajima made the study that led to that hypothesis and those products. Try them out I'm sure you'll grow a magnificent set of hair .

If you go to the website of follicept how would that be perceived by an emotional hairloss sufferer? Pretty damn effective right? Man I would almost begin to think it's better than minoxidil! Why the hell would anyone do that BEFORE even having ANY evidence that it works? Please enlighten me. I find this an important question.

Why would anyone come to this board without having any evidence? To create trust from noobs probably, what a smart move.

You do understand that even histogen, replicel, aderans, bimatoprost currently can't match to the mean growth rates of minoxidil? In fact no single compound in the history of human kind can grow hair as good as potassium channel openers. Everything till now is pretty damn far off even. Think about that, just think about that.

Do you know that minoxidil literally sets in incredibly much pathways which can positively attribute to hair follicle cycling? I could write 3 pages full of the molecular signalling implicated to minoxidil & hair follicle biology. Jup also IGF-1 is apparently upregulated by minoxidil;



Do you sincerely believe that considering that IGF-1 has been around for such a long time that the world is so damn lazy to not have tried this out already? Come on man. What do you think all the real top hair loss biologists do? What do you think that pharmaceutical companies wouldn't have picked up IGF-1? Do you sincerely believe that hair transplant doctors didn't play with multiple growth factors?


And no, sorry the delivery vehicle isn't superior to injections. Injections are highly efficient even with compound like botox which is 150kDa (20 times bigger than IGF-1), delivered IM or SUB-Q. With injections you literally push the substance in direct cell contact to the place where you need to be, just as in vitro almost. After passing the strateum corneum diffused distribution is possible too. After that the pharmacokinetics of the compound itself can do the job.

Oh and btw People with Laron Syndrome ironically have pretty luxurious hair from what I saw. Their condition is marked by having almost no IGF-1 concentrations in their body. They can have Androgenetic Alopecia though. What we can draw from this evidence is that most likely IGF-1 isn't as important for hair follicle cycling. There might be some paracrine action going on from the dermal papilla to specific cell lines in the hair follicle itself even in their condition. After all most of the IGF-1 is secreted by the liver and the hair follicle is a mini-organ too. But for the DP itself? Most likely not. Knockdown of SHH for example causes full Alopecia.

In the past Hairismylife, people were skeptical too.. For instance about the Theradome, Keratene Retard, TRX2, Procyanidin-b2, Folligen, Equol and the list goes on with hundreds of products...

I can imagine new people would be hyped by this and easily convinced I really do. But dude most of these products had smart people behind them too.. Looked legit as hell at first, good credentials etc. Yet we see how good those products work, awesome.

Then again, jup as I explained Devon can run his trial now and come with the so called "good results". Do you know how often this has happened dude in the hairloss industry and for instance in the supplement industry? Man I could give you a list of 100 things. It's marketing pur sang for commercial driven goals. The uneducated, uninformed people on this forum are such an easy target.

@Keki, I can show you trichoscans from multiple treatments too, they look so damn awesome. For instance LLLT, Procyanidin-b2, SGF-57, Pumpkin seed oil, folligen ETC

Here we are still the only real treatments are finasteride & minoxidil. Isn't that strange? What makes those study results of those other products different then when these results of follicept will be released?

Injection has only been superior to this point because it was basically the only option. The whole value proposition of our company and technology is transporting large molecules across the skin without needles. So far we have done up to 22kDa.

Let's take the example of insulin (which as you know, we have delivered). Most people inject 20 or more units per day. They create a little reservoir of insulin in the skin/fat/muscle. There is variability from every injection. They get scars and nodules. If they hit a vein/capillary, they can go hypoglycemic, possibly even die from it. There is first pass metabolism of the liver, so much of what they inject never even gets used.

Our technology can deliver drug right to the venous/capillary plexus, which is more efficient, not painful at all, avoids first pass metabolism, eliminates biohazardous waste, and so much more.

You are confusing effectiveness and efficiency. Injection is very effective. It is not very efficient. We are the first to break the rule of 500 like this. Stay tuned. Follicept or not, we are in discussion with major pharma players.

[follicept]

Hi Devon, I have a question. I am not sure if you covered this, but is there any specific reason that pulse therapy is considered over a continuous dose? Do you believe there will be enhanced efficacy that way? I understand that this is probably far too early to ask this, but just checking as to where you guys stand as of now.

Also, just want to say, thank you for being so honest and open about this whole thing. You have stood valiantly, and with class and dignity despite all the ridiculous accusations. Best of luck with the trials!

I think it has to do with the follicle cycles, and creating a positive feedback loop. From my (limited) understanding of what the science team tells me, the IGF-1 receptors are activated, and wake up neighboring ones, which could take time. I believe I copied a response to this on a much earlier post... Thanks!

[Helix]

Swooping did you read Devon's answer about injections vs Follicept ?

It is not just more convenient, it is indeed better. In our rat studies (yes, we all know the limitations), we had the same therapeutic effect of 140 units of insulin per week with just 6 units of insulin. Not just more convenient. More efficient.

I am skeptic about this product also, it might not work, i might be a scam but how the hell are you so sure that injections are the "holy grail" of delivery systems and that that there is absolutely no better way ? You made some valid points and thank you for that, but others are just pure speculations.

[Helix]

Our technology can deliver drug right to the venous/capillary plexus, which is more efficient, not painful at all, avoids first pass metabolism, eliminates biohazardous waste, and so much more.

You are confusing effectiveness and efficiency. Injection is very effective. It is not very efficient. We are the first to break the rule of 500 like this. Stay tuned. Follicept or not, we are in discussion with major pharma players.

Something started to bother me lately. We all know that IGF-1 is related to cancer. Now my question is, if Follicept is more efficient than injections for hair growth than wouldn't it also be more efficient in inducing cancer ?

[follicept]

Something started to bother me lately. We all know that IGF-1 is related to cancer. Now my question is, if Follicept is more efficient than injections for hair growth than wouldn't it also be more efficient in inducing cancer ?

Objection: asked and answered. 1-10ppm is so low that even full systemic absorption (unlikely) is lower than normal levels in the blood. So low in fact that it's within the margin of error for detection tests in the blood.

[serenemoon]

Something started to bother me lately. We all know that IGF-1 is related to cancer. Now my question is, if Follicept is more efficient than injections for hair growth than wouldn't it also be more efficient in inducing cancer ?

Here you go. https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post199374