Dermarolling Community Trial

[Knockin on NW4]

Hellouser is a hairloss RockStar!

[DesperateOne]

I don't see the point in leaving the blood on, there isn't anything leaving that blood on your scalp will accomplish aside from making you look worse. The magic is happening down at the follicles, not on the surface of your scalp. I usually roll at night right before I take a shower and wash my head in the shower.

Well if you shampoo then it will get in the wounds, and may be bad. If anything, what I recommend is boiling some water and let it cool, then RU se off the blood with it. So no imperfections get in, even ones from the shower water like chlorine.

[greatjob!]

Well if you shampoo then it will get in the wounds, and may be bad. If anything, what I recommend is boiling some water and let it cool, then RU se off the blood with it. So no imperfections get in, even ones from the shower water like chlorine.

I think that may be overly cautious/over thinking things, but who knows. Generally with published studies they include everything in the protocol of importance and leave out the things considered to be of little to no consequence.

Also it's pretty standard procedure to wash wounds after they occur be it from injury or surgery, so I would assume if it was important to not wash the hair after rolling it would certainly be included in the study. And not washing after you roll will surely increase the chance of infection as well.

[DesperateOne]

I think that may be overly cautious/over thinking things, but who knows. Generally with published studies they include everything in the protocol of importance and leave out the things considered to be of little to no consequence.

Also it's pretty standard procedure to wash wounds after they occur be it from injury or surgery, so I would assume if it was important to not wash the hair after rolling it would certainly be included in the study. And not washing after you roll will surely increase the chance of infection as well.

You would think that but... no. Remember, this was a simple pilot, not a really well controlled experiment. People have contacted them and it seems they left out a few things and also sugar coated the story a bit. Like they admitted that participants typically did bleed and not mildly. Well yes, infection is a concern with blood drying out. I don't think blood contributes in anyway, or is there some science with it and wounding?

At any rate, I am so freaking tired of this curse. My cousin's dad is a nw7 and it should of been him that got this curse, not me ****.

[greatjob!]

At any rate, I am so freaking tired of this curse. My cousin's dad is a nw7 and it should of been him that got this curse, not me ****.

Tell me about it! I have like 30+ cousins and they all have perfect hair. I'm the only person in my huge ass family that started loosing hair at a young age, aside from one of my uncles I have less native hair than all of them and they are at least double my age.

I remember one of the worst realizations I ever made was in high school when I realized that every one of 40+ year old male teachers had more hair than I did.

[Stocione]

You would think that but... no. Remember, this was a simple pilot, not a really well controlled experiment. People have contacted them and it seems they left out a few things and also sugar coated the story a bit. Like they admitted that participants typically did bleed and not mildly.

Please, Please, Please stop spreading misinformation. I'm the person who contacted them and confirmed that blood was considered an immediate endpoint in treatment. This WAS a well controlled experiment. And when publishing a study in a journal you typically have a wordcount. The methods section is not meant to describe in detail the methodology so that others can reproduce it. In a small journal it typically just provides a general outline of steps. If you want to reproduce these sorts of studies, you need to contact the researchers. That's why they list email addresses to paying subscribers! Did you happen to notice that they also didn't include the details of the roller, including needle count? These are all EXTREMELY important details. But they likely didn't have room and their priorities were the results and discussion sections.

This isn't a step by step guide to how they dermarolled... so please stop saying they sugar coated things. They considered blood as an end point to BE mild erythmia. And I never once reported that the researcher indicated that they bleed profusely. Only that there was blood.

[TO YOUNG TO RETIRE]

Stocione can you make a thread of the dets you got?
i think we need them
dont we?

[clandestine]

I remember one of the worst realizations I ever made was in high school when I realized that every one of 40+ year old male teachers had more hair than I did.

Right in the feels.

[MackJames]

I've been rolling until the scalp begins to become red. I have a little blood but nowhere near as much blood as hellouser. Should I be rolling more vigorously?

[fred970]

OK I shaved my head today and I must admit I (think I) noticed a lot of new vellus hairs.

[Stocione]

I've been rolling until the scalp begins to become red. I have a little blood but nowhere near as much blood as hellouser. Should I be rolling more vigorously?

Honestly I don't know for sure. The researcher only said that blood was considered an end point, so once they saw blood in a part of the scalp they stopped rolling that portion of the scalp.

Based on people's responses so far on the forums though, I'd say you should aim to get about as much blood as hellouser though.

[Stocione]

Stocione can you make a thread of the dets you got?
i think we need them
dont we?

We don't. The researcher was a smart guy, but at this point he was guessing just as much as the rest of us. He also wasn't the lead author, so he wasn't the most knowledgeable of the bunch (just the only one that responded to me!). Most people are following the same protocol they used with the exception that we are all using way more needles in our rollers than they did, if I remember his email correctly. .

[hellouser]

Here's an interesting question:

If the objective of the dermarolling community trial is to create a 'cheap mans version of Follica' why, unlike Follica, are we waiting 24 hours before applying topicals?

In the recent patent made public with Follica's method, they apply their topical treatments soon after the scalp is wounded with a laser. In their other published articles, they stated 'amonixidil' was applied after wounding. I've mentioned it before but my body heals FAST, I had 4 wisdom teeth pulled recently and gum grafting, both times my surgeon (performing both procedures) says my anatomy is crazy and hasn't seen anyone heal that quickly in a long time. The same happens to my scalp when I dermaroll, the itchiness/soreness from the dermarolling is gone after a few hours which leads me to believe that those open wounds created by the dermaroller have closed up quickly, which from what I gather, is going against Follica's method as they try to SLOW DOWN the healing process and apply their topicals.

Thoughts??

[Hicks]

Here's an interesting question:

If the objective of the dermarolling community trial is to create a 'cheap mans version of Follica' why, unlike Follica, are we waiting 24 hours before applying topicals?

In the recent patent made public with Follica's method, they apply their topical treatments soon after the scalp is wounded with a laser. In their other published articles, they stated 'amonixidil' was applied after wounding. I've mentioned it before but my body heals FAST, I had 4 wisdom teeth pulled recently and gum grafting, both times my surgeon (performing both procedures) says my anatomy is crazy and hasn't seen anyone heal that quickly in a long time. The same happens to my scalp when I dermaroll, the itchiness/soreness from the dermarolling is gone after a few hours which leads me to believe that those open wounds created by the dermaroller have closed up quickly, which from what I gather, is going against Follica's method as they try to SLOW DOWN the healing process and apply their topicals.

Thoughts??

After wounding I apply Coconut oil to reduce scar tissue from forming (yes I know the wound is small). I apply minox 24 hours later (I do not want that stuff in my blood (I see no reason why I can't do it the next morning beside the fact my head burns in the shower), and the next moring I shower using 2% Nizoral then more coconut oil). Every body is going to react differently to everything. listen to your body and go from there.

I thought the idea of the dermaroller was to signal your bodies own growth factors to the area that is wounded then let it start the healing process during which we need to induce as much assists to growth factor as possible in the window of time. To much wounding might lead to the wrong growth factor/out come (counter productive)?????

Just my thoughts

[Stocione]

After wounding I apply Coconut oil to reduce scar tissue from forming (yes I know the wound is small). I apply minox 24 hours later (I do not want that stuff in my blood (I see no reason why I can't do it the next morning beside the fact my head burns in the shower), and the next moring I shower using 2% Nizoral then more coconut oil). Every body is going to react differently to everything. listen to your body and go from there.

I thought the idea of the dermaroller was to signal your bodies own growth factors to the area that is wounded then let it start the healing process during which we need to induce as much assists to growth factor as possible in the window of time. To much wounding might lead to the wrong growth factor/out come (counter productive)?????

Just my thoughts

Do you have any studies to support your thoughts? Look, I don't want to be a jerk here but people are offering wild speculation based on zero science. There are well documented studies on the wounding response and the specific growth factors released at certain times during the inflammatory process.

Every body does NOT react differently. There is variance, sure. But a normal functioning inflammatory response looks relatively similar between individuals. Further, It's entirely unclear that we want to promote faster healing; that might even be counterproductive.

I think there is good reason to think that putting minoxidil on immediately after wounding may be beneficial, in part because of the time frame it takes for minox to upregulate PGE2 and in turn for the PGE2 to induce FGF9. Still, this is all guesswork. But personally I think if that's what Cots is doing, we also should be doing it.

People don't seem to realize that wounding is a well controlled response. You are free to do whatever you want, of course. Just please take the time to read the studies and research and you'll have a better idea of what you should be doing to see results.

Rather specifically, I would not put ANY anti-inflammatory on directly after wounding... particularly nothing like emu oil or coconut oil. You are driving full speed and then placing a speed block in the way.